ILMC 2011 Discussion

[NelisB]

Originally Posted by arakis

probably less downforce, grip in medium to high speed corners

Because less downforce is being generated by the underfloor and diffuser?

[arakis]

Originally Posted by NelisB

Because less downforce is being generated by the underfloor and diffuser?

yup, and probably more body roll due to the higher center of gravity

[Purist]

Ironically, more body roll could well increase the chances of a blowover if someone gets sideways.

[dj choc ice]

Originally Posted by Purist

Ironically, more body roll could well increase the chances of a blowover if someone gets sideways.

I was reading the above posts and thought the exact same. Surely a sideways blowover will be more likely to occur when the car is sideways with a higher ride height as it will allow air to get under the car a lot easier?

[joeb]

Originally Posted by dj choc ice

I was reading the above posts and thought the exact same. Surely a sideways blowover will be more likely to occur when the car is sideways with a higher ride height as it will allow air to get under the car a lot easier?

I too had that thought, but there must be something more to it aerodynamically.

[chernaudi]

And the thing is that according to Mulsanne Mike when he talked about the increase in louver area (covered by the same rule changes as the skid thickness increase), that it was actually Peugeot who pushed for such things after their own investigation of their testing accidents, namely the thicker skid, increased front fender louver area, and louvers in the rear fenders.

This means that Audi and Peugeot will have to change the bodywork on their cars for the third time this year, which for a factory team in an inconvenience, but can the privateers afford to modify their cars to accommodate the changes?

And reducing cornering forces basically eats into the LMP's main advantage in getting around GT cars--their cornering speed.

The only way I don't see more accidents potentially at Silverstone is if the reduction in downforce is met by a reduction in drag, which would increase straightline speeds.

[Livininthinair]

Pardon if i'm wrong but wouldnt an increase in louver area increase downforce, therefore overcoming a slight increase in ride height or at least allow the extra underbody airflow a place to escape...???

[chernaudi]

Mike says in the news section of his site that the Peugeot and FIA/ACO findings point towards the louvers giving the cars better stability in yaw by reducing the lift of the cars near the extremes of their front and rear overhangs--of course, the FIA found out similar things based off the research that Nick Wirth and Delta Motorsports did in 2008/09, and that it was Peugeot who sold the idea to the ACO/FIA after their own testing of the items.

[Purist]

Of course, adding louvers will add drag, not just downforce, which will NOT help the LMPs clear the GTs on the straights.

[Livininthinair]

I guess to correct the way I was thinking, not necessarily an increase in downforce but decrease of lift. Just trying to think about what the underlying goal is and what other effects this may have on stability. Safety is good but this is an inherently dangerous sport regardless.

[chernaudi]

If the front and rear diffusers aren't making more downforce, that will cut drag. The old flat-bottomed cars at LM in the early '80s were competitive because of not having the same drag as the tunnel cars like the Porsche 956.

And the louvers ad fairly little drag, in spite of Audi and Peugeot's rabid attempts to reduce having to use them (and their liability to get damaged in races, which with the ACO is basically a no-no), especially with what the early Audi R15 used at Sebring in '09 with a full set of flush fitting louvers.

They do add downforce and drag, and reduce lift, but it's marginal compared to wing angles and diveplanes, which we have to question that with the huge diveplanes that the Audi R18 ran at LM this year, even running a twin HD set in practice.

[Livininthinair]

The front fender louvers on the R18 are not the old panel of fins style louvers on most other LMP cars, they are a moulded part of the fender that face straight back and are much less prone to blowout/damage from rubber ect. Anyone think Audi will change the way the rear fenders are to incorporate this same type of design or am I not on the same page?

[chernaudi]

And it should be noted that I visited the Mulsanne's Corner Facebook page, and Mike answered questions about the rule change, and he doesn't think that the raised skid will be a big deal--1mm increase for the front, and 5mm at the rear. Taking into account the F/R rake of the cars, he doesn't think that'll be a major change.

[NaBUru38]

Standings after 5 / 7 rounds:

LMP1 Manufacturers:

1. Peugeot, 153
2. Audi, 108
3. Aston Martin, 0

GTE Manufacturers:

1. Ferrari, 128
2. BMW, 108
3. Porsche, 84
3. Corvette, 75
5. Aston Martin, 12
6. Lotus, 10

LMP1 Teams:

1. Peugeot, 81
2. Audi, 74
3. Oreca, 34
4. Rebellion, 33
5. Oak, 16
6. Aston Martin, 4
7. Hope, 0

LMP2 Teams:

1. Signatech, 68
2. Level 5, 42
3. Oak, 41

GTE Pro Teams:

1. AF Corse, 83
2. BMW, 74
3. Luxury, 20
4. Lotus, 17

[kober]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

LMP1 Manufacturers:
...
3. Aston Martin, 0

Aston Martin is not classified in the manufacturers cup any more.

[NaBUru38]

Standings after 6 / 7 rounds:

LMP1 Manufacturers:

1. Peugeot, 182
2. Audi, 108

GTE Manufacturers:

1. Ferrari, 151
2. BMW, 123
3. Porsche, 108
3. Corvette, 85
5. Aston Martin, 13
6. Lotus, 10

BMW can still win the GTE Manufacturers title, but they must rely on winning and Ferraris getting retired.

[Japanese Samurai]

Tokai Univ announced that it participates in Zuhai round of ILMC.
Machine is TOP03 and engine is YR40T.
Development of new engine (3.4l) and hybrid system was interrupted by the sponsor's withdrawal.
20kg weight saving was carried out by the whole machine this year. Improvement is given about aerodynamic characteristic, suspension, power train, etc. Students perform the overhaul of gear box or engine theirselves.
Drivers are Shogo Mitsuyama and Naoki Yokomizo.
http://as-web.jp/news/info.php?c_id=6&no=36695

[MitchZ06]

Doesn't look anything special aero wise and I'm guessing it'll score a similar result to last year at Zhuhai....

[NelisB]

Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai

Tokai Univ announced that it participates in Zuhai round of ILMC.
Machine is TOP03 and engine is YR40T.
Development of new engine (3.4l) and hybrid system was interrupted by the sponsor's withdrawal.
20kg weight saving was carried out by the whole machine this year. Improvement is given about aerodynamic characteristic, suspension, power train, etc. Students perform the overhaul of gear box or engine theirselves.
Drivers are Shogo Mitsuyama and Naoki Yokomizo.
http://as-web.jp/news/info.php?c_id=6&no=36695

Any chance of them participating in the Le Mans next year? I remember them being at Le Mans in 2008. The car sounded incredible, very F1 like.

[Japanese Samurai]

Their killer wepons are new original engine and hybrid system.
So, no new engine/hybrid system, no selection by ACO.

[Simmi]

Good to see them back I think it's great.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Agreed, more protos are always a good thing.

[Deleted]

Too bad they're likely to be one of the only non-regular entries we'll see at Zhuhai (again).

[Nick6]

So another 23 car (give or take a few) grid. This has all the makings for another great event.

[The Badger]

Well , it is only really finding its feet , but I see what you mean .

Wait till 2012 ..... if all the news coming through does ..... its shaping up pretty good so far , imo .