[BTCC] BTCC 2020 season discussion, News and Rumours!

[deley]

<sigh>

[Petoli]

Originally Posted by redshoes

If I'm reading the regs correctly, the extra 1 hour of practice is only required for night racing and "night" is defined as 30 mins after the US Naval Observatory's official time. That's around 2 hours after sunset. Britcar just sneaks in before that 30 min cutoff. Any BTCC races this years will also be before that cut-off.

With regards to the night races in the late 90s, they were properly "night" and ran a practice session on the Friday as part of the MSA permitted meeting.

Does the UK use the US Naval Observatory definition of night. Surely the BTCC would use a UK definition of night,

The Civil Aviation Authority defines night as the time from half an hour after sunset until half an hour before sunrise (both times inclusive), sunset and sunrise being determined at surface level;

[kipper]

Originally Posted by Petoli

Does the UK use the US Naval Observatory definition of night. Surely the BTCC would use a UK definition of night,

The Civil Aviation Authority defines night as the time from half an hour after sunset until half an hour before sunrise (both times inclusive), sunset and sunrise being determined at surface level;

The BTCC regulations don't define night - presumably because night races weren't envisaged when they were written. In consequence, the over arching Motorsport UK Blue Book is the defining regulation. This prescribes, as Redshoes says, night as happening 30 minutes after the official time of the US Naval Observatory. It also prescribes that any nigt race competitors must have a night time practice in excess of 30 minutes.

[S griffin]

Gow may have a surprise or two up his sleeve to cope with this situation

[deley]

Originally Posted by medius

''Normal'' BTCC Friday practice is marshaled at normal Motorsport UK permit level as supports race Friday so all Blue Book trappings and operational code apply. Past precedence doesn't necessarily apply now though If the only Friday activity is going to be a BTCC practice.

which rounds do the supports race on Friday?

[sceptic]

It's all moot, as there won't be any racing, or testing, or practice when it's dark, and certainly not when it is night.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Gow may have a surprise or two up his sleeve to cope with this situation

Gordon Shedden in a third Dynamics Honda?

[touringlegend]

So if the races are held behind closed doors, how do the commercial side stack up for the circuits? Will TOCA waive all fees

[S griffin]

I do wonder how many teams will be struggling for a budget going into 2021

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by RS67

I'm not talking about Britcar Friday practice, I am talking about BTCC Friday practice. It is a standard part of every BTCC weekend.

Eh? I don’t think it’s a part of any weekend is it?

Friday is normally private testing for various series, but nothing to do with the weekend itself.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Petoli

Does the UK use the US Naval Observatory definition of night. Surely the BTCC would use a UK definition of night,

The Civil Aviation Authority defines night as the time from half an hour after sunset until half an hour before sunrise (both times inclusive), sunset and sunrise being determined at surface level;

Gosh, that reminds me of all those years ago when I got my first moped, the official definition of 'Lighting-up time!'

[S griffin]

Brands does happen after BST ends. So I wonder if they would consider a twilight race, as it will get dark by 4

[billy bleach]

Does anybody on here seriously think TOCA haven’t thought this through?! All this talk of darkness etc I suspect they have all of this covered. .....

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Does anybody on here seriously think TOCA haven’t thought this through?! All this talk of darkness etc I suspect they have all of this covered. .....

Don't forget - 10/10ths is the place where the real expertise exists, and the rest of the world looks here to found out how they should really be handling matters.

[RS67]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Eh? I don’t think it’s a part of any weekend is it?

Friday is normally private testing for various series, but nothing to do with the weekend itself.

I have been to Friday testing at Brands Hatch several times on BTCC weekends and the only cars testing/practising are the TOCA support series. The BTCC teams are setting up their garages, plus weighing and checking ride height on the Flat Patch. If it's the first meeting of the season the BTCC cars get to practice their standing starts on the grid for a very short period.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by RS67

I have been to Friday testing at Brands Hatch several times on BTCC weekends and the only cars testing/practising are the TOCA support series. The BTCC teams are setting up their garages, plus weighing and checking ride height on the Flat Patch. If it's the first meeting of the season the BTCC cars get to practice their standing starts on the grid for a very short period.

You’re right but the testing organised by the circuit. It’s not part of the official TOCA-run meeting.

[RS67]

Originally Posted by peebee2

You’re right but the testing organised by the circuit. It’s not part of the official TOCA-run meeting.

But in these circumstances, it doesn't mean it can't be. As the cars would only be testing, they won't need a large number of marshalls.

[mark_l]

Originally Posted by RS67

But in these circumstances, it doesn't mean it can't be. As the cars would only be testing, they won't need a large number of marshalls.

Most circuits have their own employed team of marshals for weekday testing, so it would just be another day at work for them.

[kipper]

Originally Posted by RS67

But in these circumstances, it doesn't mean it can't be. As the cars would only be testing, they won't need a large number of marshalls.

This poses a number of issues.

Firstly the BTCC regations would need to be rewritten in order to allow them to go testing on the Friday. Assuming this takes place, it wouldn't obviate the need for a free practice session on the Saturday morning as the regulations would still require this to take place. Therefore there is no time saving, and a possible cost increase.

Running a Free Practice session on Friday would mean that it would then be part of the race meeting. In consequence, the full quota of scrutineers, marshals and medical cover would be required. This is because Motorsport UK's minimum standards are significantly higher than those used by individual circuits on a test day. I would question if appropriate numbers could be secured.

It is also important to point out that Motorsport UK's minimum standards are the same irrespective of whether drivers are undertaking free practice, qualifying or racing.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by kipper

This poses a number of issues.

Firstly the BTCC regations would need to be rewritten in order to allow them to go testing on the Friday. Assuming this takes place, it wouldn't obviate the need for a free practice session on the Saturday morning as the regulations would still require this to take place. Therefore there is no time saving, and a possible cost increase.

Running a Free Practice session on Friday would mean that it would then be part of the race meeting. In consequence, the full quota of scrutineers, marshals and medical cover would be required. This is because Motorsport UK's minimum standards are significantly higher than those used by individual circuits on a test day. I would question if appropriate numbers could be secured.

It is also important to point out that Motorsport UK's minimum standards are the same irrespective of whether drivers are undertaking free practice, qualifying or racing.

A small detail regarding Friday as part of the meeting. Who pays for the circuit hire? When do the supports test? Does this mean set up on Thursday? Does that mean a potential track day or some such is lost costing the circuit even more money! Where do the teams find the additional budget for staff that normally arrive in Saturday ? Where do teams find the money for an extra hotel night? It’s going to be a struggle anyway financially , an extra day of running ( Friday) is the last thing anybody would need I suspect. Probably a good thing Alan Gow is running it.....::

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

A small detail regarding Friday as part of the meeting. Who pays for the circuit hire? When do the supports test? Does this mean set up on Thursday? Does that mean a potential track day or some such is lost costing the circuit even more money! Where do the teams find the additional budget for staff that normally arrive in Saturday ? Where do teams find the money for an extra hotel night? It’s going to be a struggle anyway financially , an extra day of running ( Friday) is the last thing anybody would need I suspect. Probably a good thing Alan Gow is running it.....::

BTCC don’t test as no need and costs big-time.

Supports much more important as in driver contracts. And the entrants pay for it.

Especially important for F4 where drivers want 30/40 test days per season. Reality is biggest overall budgets in TOCA are in F4...

They set up Thursday but circuit can still run a track day from the garages etc. BTCC teams can come in Thursday evening onwards.

[S griffin]

Good article in today's Autosport, the last for a while about Motorbase's challenge for the season ahead. Rory Butcher is confident for the year ahead

[RS67]

Originally Posted by kipper

This poses a number of issues.

Firstly the BTCC regations would need to be rewritten in order to allow them to go testing on the Friday. Assuming this takes place, it wouldn't obviate the need for a free practice session on the Saturday morning as the regulations would still require this to take place. Therefore there is no time saving, and a possible cost increase.

Running a Free Practice session on Friday would mean that it would then be part of the race meeting. In consequence, the full quota of scrutineers, marshals and medical cover would be required. This is because Motorsport UK's minimum standards are significantly higher than those used by individual circuits on a test day. I would question if appropriate numbers could be secured.

It is also important to point out that Motorsport UK's minimum standards are the same irrespective of whether drivers are undertaking free practice, qualifying or racing.

It's not the Btcc cars practice that would be taking place on a Friday, just the support series cars.
You are still ignoring the fact that the circumstances we are experiencing globally now are unlike anything we have ever experienced before. Rewriting the rule books is just as likely as every day life not being able to continue the same again.

[RS67]

Originally Posted by peebee2

They set up Thursday but circuit can still run a track day from the garages etc. BTCC teams can come in Thursday evening onwards.

BTCC teams are there on a Thursday anyway, a skeleton crew will be setting up Thursday and Friday. TOCA also have some of their crew there too, with the flat Patch set up their hospitality marquee will be set up.

[Pdh]

Alan Gow has done an interview on btcc.net and was asked about racing behind closed doors and how the last two events could be effected by darkness, it’s an interesting listen