What about the fans? - Page 2

old man · 11 May 2007, 13:54 (Ref:1911093)

We discussed all these matters at great length in another thread "Spectator Interest", it is good that they come up again. and I am sure we will get all the same comments.

The obvious problems are the need for access to live timing so that you can follow the progress or otherwise of your favourites and the need to get close to the participants and cars. Nothing (well, there are some exceptions!) is an enjoyable experience if you don't know what is going on and fans are vital for any series where the participants need sponsorship. The fans need lots of information whether they are at the circuit or watching on TV

The TV package is improving although the commentary could be better in some cases and the European Tv transmitions do not give class position boxes or screen top strips that are anything like as good as the American broadcasters do. If the organisers generate interest through a TV audience it is in their interests to see that the fans are properly informed if they attend the actual race. If it is done well it will build, if not it will do the opposite.

**Aysedasi** · 11 May 2007, 15:30 (Ref:1911163)

The TV side of things at Le Mans is interesting in that its never really worried me - as I'm always there. But I wonder what I'd make of it if - God Forbid - I was ever unable to go? There's no way I'd bre satisfied with what's available to me sitting at home.....

P.S. I used to go to Le Mans with a friend called Peter (or Pierre as I renamed him). After a run of years he didn't go in 1996. His partner Hilda later told my wife - "Don't ever make him stay at home - it isn't worth it. All you'll hear all weekend is where he would have been now if he was at Le Mans.......". Of course, I've made use of that justification several times since........

GTfour · 11 May 2007, 16:19 (Ref:1911194)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

The TV side of things at Le Mans is interesting in that its never really worried me - as I'm always there. But I wonder what I'd make of it if - God Forbid - I was ever unable to go? There's no way I'd bre satisfied with what's available to me sitting at home.....

P.S. I used to go to Le Mans with a friend called Peter (or Pierre as I renamed him). After a run of years he didn't go in 1996. His partner Hilda later told my wife - "Don't ever make him stay at home - it isn't worth it. All you'll hear all weekend is where he would have been now if he was at Le Mans.......". Of course, I've made use of that justification several times since........

Now that's a good tip!

About Radio Le Mans,I love this brilliant broadcastservice and indepth interviews and all,but when sitting next to the track one can hardly hear them when the cars are screamin' past you.
I know,get a full earcovering headset but then again I refuse to walk around like an alien all the race.
It shouldn't be a big effort to put up some TV screens around the track like at Mulsanne corner and Arnage. Just the positions would be fine by me...

**Aysedasi** · 11 May 2007, 17:08 (Ref:1911223)

Yep, I can agree that. Two or three scoreboards simply showing positions and time/lap differences woukld make a lot of difference.

**Adam43** · 11 May 2007, 17:12 (Ref:1911229)

They do have many screens. If they had more at Arnage and Mulsanne I hope they would turn them off at night, although they have spoilt those corners in the dark by having all those flood lights on.

I missed Le Mans once, fifteen years ago, I was glued to Ceefax for 24 hours. Still at least I didn't get soaked.

JAG · 11 May 2007, 17:27 (Ref:1911237)

Very often you have the same teams and cars at LMS and FIA GT events, yet the atmosphere, from a fans perspective, is very different.

The FIA influence over the GT series changed the atmosphere and fun aspect from the BPR days.

I'm convinced the FIA couldn't careless about the series, and you get the impression it could go bang at any point.

The LMS still has much to do to improve the promotion aspect, but it is improving, Monza was a big improvement over previous year, and I expect the same at the post Le Mans events.

We sometimes forget there have been less than 20 LMS events in total.

**Aysedasi** · 11 May 2007, 21:11 (Ref:1911325)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

I missed Le Mans once, fifteen years ago, I was glued to Ceefax for 24 hours. Still at least I didn't get soaked.

Ah, so you were one of the ones who thought it wasn't worth going in 92 were you? Missed the Peugeot/Toyota battle and those fabulous cars.......

**Adam43** · 11 May 2007, 22:11 (Ref:1911353)

I had an exam!

Otherwise I would have gone anyway, despite the Jags missing. Although I don't know how I'd have coped with the Jazda!

However I don't think the field, in quantity or quality, gave the fans what they wanted. Here we might be on to something; screens, lights are all very good, but the key is the cars.

GTfour · 12 May 2007, 00:14 (Ref:1911380)

Ofcourse,it is all about the cars in the end. But if you know who's closing on who,it makes it all the more exciting.
The fact that we get pulled away from the good vantage points ever further,doesn't improve things either...

I hate to be a nagger about all this,but surely,there must be some way we can slightly change things in our advantage?

Roel_Ooms · 12 May 2007, 02:35 (Ref:1911402)

After 5 Le Mans visits '01-'05, LMS Spa-Franchorchamps '04 and Nurburgring '06 and 2 Formula One visits (Spa '01 and Hockenheim '06) I was flabbergasted by the entourage on Sebring last March! From the pit-walk in the morning on race day, the friendliness of the track marshals, to the small distance to the track; it was all so much, much more involving me into the race.

The ALMS is really doing a good job in keeping visitors coming back and becoming fans for life. Can't say that of Bernie's worldwide circus, while LM/LMS is somewhere in between these extremes.

Will be back next month after one years absence (the worst weekend of '06 but the RLM internet broadcast helped me survive), and I'm curious how the track side changes affect my Le Mans experience I started to love so much. Re. the lights and screens; I don't care as long as I have Radio Le Mans (chapeau to everyone making it possible each year!). I wasn't aware of the lights only until I read the Sebring 'programme officiel' in the plane back home and I didn't feel I missed anything of the action.

Mindspin13B · 12 May 2007, 03:25 (Ref:1911412)

Im in love with going to Sebring. Its so much fun. The fans are great and so is the track. I remember walking up and down pit lane Thursday night just snapping pics. Two security people passed me and simply said "hi" and kept on going. During the race I asked 4 random people to climb to the top of their RVs to snap a few pics and 3 of the 4 let me. Great atmosphere at Sebring.

bil588 · 12 May 2007, 07:12 (Ref:1911451)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roel_Ooms

After 5 Le Mans visits '01-'05, LMS Spa-Franchorchamps '04 and Nurburgring '06 and 2 Formula One visits (Spa '01 and Hockenheim '06) I was flabbergasted by the entourage on Sebring last March! From the pit-walk in the morning on race day, the friendliness of the track marshals, to the small distance to the track; it was all so much, much more involving me into the race.

The ALMS is really doing a good job in keeping visitors coming back and becoming fans for life. Can't say that of Bernie's worldwide circus, while LM/LMS is somewhere in between these extremes.

Will be back next month after one years absence (the worst weekend of '06 but the RLM internet broadcast helped me survive), and I'm curious how the track side changes affect my Le Mans experience I started to love so much. Re. the lights and screens; I don't care as long as I have Radio Le Mans (chapeau to everyone making it possible each year!). I wasn't aware of the lights only until I read the Sebring 'programme officiel' in the plane back home and I didn't feel I missed anything of the action.

Has Bernie ever been to an ALMS race?

**Adam43** · 12 May 2007, 08:15 (Ref:1911469)

Probably not, and 'tis almost irrelevant here. Especially as he has managed to get it live on main TV stations around (most of) the world. So much so that an autograph session or wandering in the pit lane has become almost impractical. Anyway, Sportscar racing...

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTFour

I hate to be a nagger about all this,but surely,there must be some way we can slightly change things in our advantage?

I suppose a point I am trying to make is that it is already in our advantage. I really enjoy going, the rest is fine tuning. If you need an autograph session, lights or a timing screen to make you go back then maybe it isn't the sport for you.

I'm not saying anyone is suggesting these are must do things, but I wanted a sense of perspective. Eveything here are all good little suggestions for improving spectating, but they aren't and shouldn't fundamentally change the sport.

I wouldn't go to an autograph session, or a (busy) paddock walk about. I'd use the info from timing screens and the lights. However when I am sat at a corner watching a car, or two, round it none of that increases my pleasure. Watching cars go round corners is why I am there, which is why I am more concerned with the changes to spectator areas than a few lights.

old man · 12 May 2007, 09:14 (Ref:1911500)

We have to think wider than the LM 24 and ask how to make the other European GT events as good as the ALMS all round. It is not a matter of has Bernie ever been to an ALMS event but has S Ratel?

The pull of GP racing is so great it is almost beyond understanding really, I will watch it myself this weekend but there was more going on in almost every part of the FIA event last weekend than there will be in Barcelona on Sunday. Even Kevin Turner, an "Editorial Assistant", when given his column this week in Autosport had nice things to say about Ratel's attempts to improve the package. They print his opinion and then put in 4 pages of GT reports with the usual pathetic coverage of anything but the lead class so Mr Turner has no influence on the magazine content it would seem.

The "Sad Fact" is something I heard recently and that was that when Autosport featured Andy Priaulx on the cover for his second WTCC crown with a green banner as well the actual sales of the magazine were the worst for many years. So GP racing rules and will continue to do so until we can interest and involve the public and show them how much there is to enjoy in endurance racing, build the fan base as the ALMS appear to be doing. Le Mans and Sebring have both been mentioned here and they have one thing in common; as well as being good races there is a lot more going on around the circuit to get people to go there, is this something to build on perhaps? - discuss?

**Adam43** · 12 May 2007, 11:11 (Ref:1911536)

Quote:

Originally Posted by old man

So GP racing rules and will continue to do so until we can interest and involve the public and show them how much there is to enjoy in endurance racing,

This isn't a fight. The issue isn't against GP racing, but for Sportscar racing. I tire of the GP racing bashing, it is boring. I like sportscar racing. Endurance racing is not going to attract as many followers, because to get the numbers you need to get more casual spectators and sportscar racing does not lend itself to casual fans. I actually don't think this thread is about that though

Or that was your main point.

However there is something in that - to get the numbers through the gate you have to attract people who aren't that interested! i.e. spread your demographic to include people other than pure sportscar fans.

Quote:

Le Mans and Sebring have both been mentioned here and they have one thing in common; as well as being good races there is a lot more going on around the circuit to get people to go there, is this something to build on perhaps? - discuss?

Here I have a dilemma: I want sportscar racing to become more popular, but I don't want it to move away from being tailored to the sportscar fan! For myself, selfishly, I want it to be big enough to attract the teams, drivers and justify the event, but I don't want it to be too big that it changes.

For instance I like the fairground at Le Mans because it makes for a good background in a picture! However I don't really have a desire to go to it and it just gets in the way as I walk to the Esses!

I have also read articles about Le Mans and the social side: People who go, watch the start, turn away after lap one and then spend the rest of the race beered up. I love beer and I like the friends we meet there each year. I always go with my Dad, but the reason we go to Le Mans is for the race and to watch the race. I don't think all the other 200,000 people there (or whatever it is) do that. I'm not complaining, they can all do what they want, but I am just setting the scene, like you and others did old man, that the popularity isn't a direct result of the racing.

My discussion question is for a sportscar fan are the improvements about making your experience better or getting more non-sportscar fans to go?

I'm not making a big point here and am rambling a little, but we need to be a little careful what we wish for.

The Badger · 12 May 2007, 13:03 (Ref:1911639)

As were on about "for the fans" ..... the ACO should have a couple of decent fish & chip wagons for the week . Any idea how much a stall costs for the week ?

Hey Bentley 03 , might we have a 24 hour food thread again ?

Its always a laugh to hear about other peoples food adventures !!!

Curry stand too .....

**Aysedasi** · 12 May 2007, 15:06 (Ref:1911693)

Fish and chips and curry? You jest, surely? You can have that all day every day back home.

Who needs fish and chips of a weekend when you can have merguez for main and Grand Marnier crepes for pud!

JAG · 12 May 2007, 18:26 (Ref:1911795)

The most annoying aspect of this situation is that so many of the suggestions are simple and low cost to implement.

I don't care what anyone says, by not adopting the ALMS 3 lights system, the ACO/SRO have shown utter contempt towards spectators, this system is a complete no brainer!

I've took friends and family to races and they can't keep track, there aren't even screens showing the latest positions.

SALEEN S7R · 12 May 2007, 18:34 (Ref:1911801)

For once I have to agree with JAG. There is indeed a lack of screens, at Silverstone this was most evident. Yes there was 1 big screen in by the complex but when you are sat at Woodcote it isnt really all that clear, you can just about make out what cars are doing what but there is no way you would be able to see any postition displays unless you took binoculars with you. A few more screens woudnt be asking for too much would it?

I also agree that it is hard to follow the races unless you are a fan of the series in which case you can normally work out what is going on. A casual spectator however wouldnt have a clue. Yes there is a tanoid at the circuit and thats great for the first 10 laps, once the quicker cars start lapping the slower GT2 machines however it is easily drowned out, even when sat right in front of it. The only other option then is to buy a radio, sure it works but its not ideal if you have company. IMO.

**Adam43** · 12 May 2007, 23:11 (Ref:1911955)

Do you actually think not having a three light thing is "utter contempt"?

JAG · 12 May 2007, 23:58 (Ref:1911974)

Race organisors don't give a damn about fans, they're 20 years behind the US and other sports.

So much cash floating around at the top level and they can't be arsed to keep us informed or give us the level of access and co-operation we routinely see in the ALMS.

Why don't manufactuers and teams co-operate and ask/demand the ACO/SRO to follow the lead of the ALMS?

cptkablamo · 13 May 2007, 08:24 (Ref:1912052)

I still reckon that they need to start a Champ Car Race Director type set up. Because lets face it, international and (LMS) national tv coverage is not great and this there are many fans who would buy this for a similar price to CCWS Race Director (IMO).

**Adam43** · 13 May 2007, 08:43 (Ref:1912054)

We are missing a few lights and they "don't give a damn"! Crikey! They haven't done everything feasibly possible, but I think that is a long way from not giving a damn!

old man · 13 May 2007, 09:26 (Ref:1912070)

My point about GP racing is that we should take a look at how it has captured the audience it has, not to knock it Adam. The ALMS has done the best job so far in our field in recent years but even their best attended race is as much about the student's break as the racing.

The real key for me is to keep everyone informed all through the classes because it is always true that there is a great fight somewhere if only you knew about it.

The challenge for the organisers is to persuade the circuit managements and the press that we have a lot to offer and it will only build slowly.

Off to watch the SuperCup now

The Badger · 13 May 2007, 12:00 (Ref:1912161)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Fish and chips and curry? You jest, surely? You can have that all day every day back home.

Who needs fish and chips of a weekend when you can have merguez for main and Grand Marnier crepes for pud!

I cant get fish & chips at home ..... its not really popular in the Alps !!!

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