Dome LMP Discussion

[AGD]

Seiji Ara to return to Le Mans.

http://www.motorsport-total.com/mehr..._12020801.html

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by AGD

Seiji Ara to return to Le Mans.

http://www.motorsport-total.com/mehr..._12020801.html

Delighted!

[Japanese Samurai]

S102.5 development report by Dome
http://www.dome.co.jp/news/news/dt_112.html

*Since the engine length is short 10 cm, the adapter plate is inserted between the engine and the gear box.
*The front fender was expanded for the bigger front tires.
*Weight distribution in front and rear is 48:52 (with 50kg ballast)
*Seiji Ara doesn't compete in Spa.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai

*Seiji Ara doesn't compete in Spa.

So they'll have a replacement driver or will it be just Bourdais-Minassian for Spa then?

[Japanese Samurai]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

So they'll have a replacement driver or will it be just Bourdais-Minassian for Spa then?

No replacement.

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai

No replacement.

Maybe they aren't expecting to last six hours lol!

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Maybe they aren't expecting to last six hours lol!

With those two it will definitely run at the front while it runs without problems though.

[TF110]

If it's fast enough. I think they'll be closer to Rebellion Toyota than 'Toyota' Toyota.

[Japanese Samurai]

S102.5's new front fender

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by TF110

If it's fast enough. I think they'll be closer to Rebellion Toyota than 'Toyota' Toyota.

There's a nuance in there though: they could be closer to Rebellion but slower than them, or closer to Rebellion but faster (2 sec slower than the TS030 but 1 sec faster than the Lolas, for instance)...

[gwyllion]

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newsjan12.html has a short analysis of the S102.5 updates.

[aneesh99]

In an era where the "corporate" LMP builders hide each and every secret as though they're the only ones capable of innovating (thus everyone else is after their "stuff," naturally), and then go to ridiculous lengths to hide their cars (forgetting that the car itself is also a way to market their design excellence), tripping over their d*cks in the process (Peugeot, LM, 2010--enough said), Dome, the scrappy privateer, has been refreshingly transparent with their most recent blog update, pulling back the curtain just slightly.

Mulsanne Mike telling it like it is, I lol'd hard when I read that

[Pandamasque]

Everything that comes from Dome in terms of PR (not sure if it's even fair to use such a term!) is so different from what we're used to. They seem like just a bunch of passionate racers with a point to prove.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

Everything that comes from Dome in terms of PR (not sure if it's even fair to use such a term!) is so different from what we're used to. They seem like just a bunch of passionate racers with a point to prove.

And a revenge on mind

[Mal]

Originally Posted by CTD

And a revenge on mind

Yes and if they really did have a hand the the Toyota design in any way or even if they think Toyota has copied some aspects then to openly show the details of the car might help them prove that in due course.

[TF110]

Toyota didn't need their help but maybe took it, and I think they're butt hurt that Toyota didn't sign on with them or their design. Perhaps they had an agreement to run and Toyota said forget about it, we'll go and do it ourselves? That's just my thinking.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by TF110

Toyota didn't need their help but maybe took it, and I think they're butt hurt that Toyota didn't sign on with them or their design. Perhaps they had an agreement to run and Toyota said forget about it, we'll go and do it ourselves? That's just my thinking.

The way Toyota has chosen to attack Le Mans this time indicates clearly that Toyota needed help.
Partnering up with Oreca (the team who took the Mazda to victory, the only japanese victory) clearly shows that Toyota needed
The similarities in cockpit design also indicates that Dome been copied.

Dome only builds cars which are either ordered or potential for sale, and since the S102 never has been up for sale, leaves only one option.

And there was strong rumors of Toyota running the Supra Hybrid engine in both a S101.5 and the S102.

In general i don't think there is much doubt in that Toyota and Dome started this together, but Dome was kicked out when Toyota got what they wanted.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by CTD

The way Toyota has chosen to attack Le Mans this time indicates clearly that Toyota needed help.
Partnering up with Oreca (the team who took the Mazda to victory, the only japanese victory) clearly shows that Toyota needed
The similarities in cockpit design also indicates that Dome been copied.

Dome only builds cars which are either ordered or potential for sale, and since the S102 never has been up for sale, leaves only one option.

And there was strong rumors of Toyota running the Supra Hybrid engine in both a S101.5 and the S102.

In general i don't think there is much doubt in that Toyota and Dome started this together, but Dome was kicked out when Toyota got what they wanted.

When and why Dome was kicked out may or may not come out in time, but my point was that this could explain why Dome are keen to show off details of their car.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Mal

When and why Dome was kicked out may or may not come out in time, but my point was that this could explain why Dome are keen to show off details of their car.

And i agree with you .

My post was meant for TF110

[TF110]

Originally Posted by CTD

The way Toyota has chosen to attack Le Mans this time indicates clearly that Toyota needed help.
Partnering up with Oreca (the team who took the Mazda to victory, the only japanese victory) clearly shows that Toyota needed
The similarities in cockpit design also indicates that Dome been copied.

Dome only builds cars which are either ordered or potential for sale, and since the S102 never has been up for sale, leaves only one option.

And there was strong rumors of Toyota running the Supra Hybrid engine in both a S101.5 and the S102.

In general i don't think there is much doubt in that Toyota and Dome started this together, but Dome was kicked out when Toyota got what they wanted.

Mr. Mike seems to disagree with you- http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newsjan12.html here's what was said-

Dailysportscar.com muddies the water and indicates that "very good" sources say the Toyota TS030 features a Dome designed "chassis." Depending on the definition of chassis, it's too broad a word for our tastes as it could define either the entire car or just the monocoque, our sources say absolutely not as the entire car was designed and manufactured at Toyota Motorsports Group's Cologne Germany facility and no parts can even be transferred between the TS030 or S102 (yes, we've asked that question just to insure it wasn't an issue of semantics). While we know there was a Dome-Toyota connection, it wasn't something as basic as utilizing a S102 monocoque (taking that narrower definition of "chassis" this time). And ultimately it would be far too easy to verify if indeed the TS030 was on a S102 tub. No, we're confident that the TS030 sits on a bespoke monocoque manufactured from TMG machined patterns derived from TMG designed surfaces.

I don't think they don't NEED Oreca, they partnered with them.

[Articus]

What revenge could they possible attain with a Judd V8 engine. Its very much a customer engine so unless they severely optimize the engine they will be short on power. Whereas the Toyota seems to indicate they have just as much power as the Audi.

[alexkiller8]

Originally Posted by Articus

What revenge could they possible attain with a Judd V8 engine. Its very much a customer engine so unless they severely optimize the engine they will be short on power. Whereas the Toyota seems to indicate they have just as much power as the Audi.

in my opinion toyota engine will develope more hp than the audi one because of 2012 restrictors for diesel engines.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by TF110

Mr. Mike seems to disagree with you- http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newsjan12.html here's what was said-



I don't think they don't NEED Oreca, they partnered with them.

I am familier with what Mike has said, and believe he is correct.
However, this doesn't stop the S102 being a toe-in-the-water car from Toyota, where they pick the raw data, and develop a new car on basis of those data.

Mike himself has also said:

Now what did any of this have to do with Dome? Officially, absolutely nothing. However, unofficially, there were very strong suggestions that Dome had involvement in Toyota's LMP. It is hard to deny the obvious visual resemblance. These suggestions became stronger, and then we had very specific details that, yes, indeed, there was a Dome-Toyota connection. Inquires along these lines brought up mentions of Non-Disclosure-Agreements and there was a distinct desire to avoid any suggestions.

And yes Toyota need Oreca!, if they didn't they wouldn't partner up.

[The Badger]

Audi use Joest , Toyota use Oreca , Pug used themselves , and just look at how long it took them to get to the same level as Joest , with respect to pitstops . That was Pugs downfall for a long time .

[TF110]

That's what I'm getting at. Audi don't need an outside partner, neither do Peugeot. But they'd best be partnered with them to take advantage of their experience in pit-stops and strategy calls etc. This is what Toyota did with Oreca, they didn't leave the car building to them. That's how your comment came off. Like Toyota would be lost without them.

@CTD; About DOME- Mike further says that they anticipated a long-term involvement with Toyota, but that fell apart. So there goes the subject. The specifics aren't that important. Toyota could do well with them, or without them. And now it's the latter DOME seems disappointed and claims 'revenge'. But they never spoke those words. So this seems to be blown out of proportion. They don't even intend to challenge for the win, just to show off their pace.