LA "alternative" to Long Beach - Page 2

jock25 · 18 Apr 2005, 09:43 (Ref:1281021)

Long Beach may well turn a nice profit but Champ Car needs to think a bit bigger than that. As long as the IRL continues to encroach on 'traditional' Champ Car territory in the form of road and street races, Champ Car needs to hit back with something bigger/better/more innovative. A street race in the middle of one of the biggest cities in the world is a better bet for a championship that is constantly fighting for spectators, tv viewers and sponsors.

As for the playing of the cards, I have to agreed with trout - if KK had just kept quiet we would all be on this forum complaining about CCWS lacking leadership and the courage to fight for their territory.

icemachine · 18 Apr 2005, 21:21 (Ref:1281606)

Well here is my idea for a Santa Monica layout.

Probably not practical, But I think it would make for some stunning visuals. I'd love to see them ripping up the California Incline

Amar7605 · 18 Apr 2005, 22:31 (Ref:1281667)

That's a pretty neat layout, icemachine! Send it to Champ Car and see what they think!

indycool · 19 Apr 2005, 13:34 (Ref:1282100)

You "fight for your territory" in business in private, not play it off in the media to try to leverage someone else. It POes them. You conduct your business with who's in charge of doing the deal, the LBGPA in this case, NOT the City Council.

Heitzler tried this and lost Michigan. Heitzler tried this and lost Las Vegas as an HQ. Pook tried this numerous ways. There's not one time when it's worked in this scenario.

Blasting off threats to the public will be met with hostility every time. KK set the battle lines. "You'll see what I do to you if you go with those guys." The LBGPA is put in the position of acquiescence or battle. If I'm Michaelian, I don't get pushed around like this.

jock25 · 19 Apr 2005, 14:17 (Ref:1282140)

I do not believe that KK's comments are merely a public 'threat' to Long Beach. The event by definition is a public event - if those spectators, local commercial sponsors, representatives of the tourist industry who are involved are concerned about losing the Champ Car event then their opinions and comments would be valued and important in the decision-making process.

Perhaps KK is trying to spark a more public debate than would occur if the chosen route was closed doors negotiations where either side could effectively 'promise' whatever they want to secure the deal.

429CJ · 19 Apr 2005, 19:50 (Ref:1282418)

How about Compton or Inglewood?

Amar7605 · 20 Apr 2005, 06:21 (Ref:1282695)

Quote:

Originally Posted by 429CJ

How about Compton or Inglewood?

Please tell me you're not serious.

indycool · 20 Apr 2005, 15:11 (Ref:1283069)

Of course they're a public threat. Read the quotes. "If we lose Long Beach, we'll just go up to LA and run against you." If that's not a threat, I don't know what is.

Amar7605 · 20 Apr 2005, 16:34 (Ref:1283129)

If a race is run in LA, I don't think CC will have a problem promoting it. They'll invite the celeberties to come and they will so they can be seen. And since open-wheel street racing is not a new thing in the area, people will be more receptable to a new race. In fact, it might generate more interest because people may want to check out the new layout.

But the setting has to be right. You can't just simply throw a race in the middle of downtown LA. It's got to be in an area that has character.

429CJ · 20 Apr 2005, 16:57 (Ref:1283157)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amar7605

Please tell me you're not serious.

I'm never serious.

Amar7605 · 20 Apr 2005, 17:11 (Ref:1283169)

Compton may not be so bad. We'll put spinner wheels on the cars, add some hydraulics, throw some subwoffers in the back, play some Snoop Dogg, down some 40's. Have a side show where we rob Korean-owned liquor stores.

Oh yeah - make sure that the racing suits are baggy and hang below the knees. And at the podium have the drivers wear their ballcaps sideways.

Mike_Wooshy · 20 Apr 2005, 17:15 (Ref:1283176)

lol, i can really see Newman haas and Forsythe installing Uzi's for their drive bys ......

Amar7605 · 20 Apr 2005, 17:24 (Ref:1283181)

Dub Presents the Champ Car Urban Series Powered By Old English 800

Sivat · 21 Apr 2005, 06:31 (Ref:1283558)

Quote:

Originally Posted by icemachine

Well here is my idea for a Santa Monica layout.

Probably not practical, But I think it would make for some stunning visuals. I'd love to see them ripping up the California Incline

You've never been to Santa Monica have you?

Fish_Flake · 22 Apr 2005, 03:47 (Ref:1284283)

Forget Los Angeles. The place that needs the image change is the Valley. Run a course amidst the porno warehouses up in Chatsworth. That'll provide some nice grid girls, for sure.

brightline · 22 Apr 2005, 11:54 (Ref:1284515)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amar7605

Compton may not be so bad. We'll put spinner wheels on the cars, add some hydraulics, throw some subwoffers in the back, play some Snoop Dogg, down some 40's. Have a side show where we rob Korean-owned liquor stores.

Oh yeah - make sure that the racing suits are baggy and hang below the knees. And at the podium have the drivers wear their ballcaps sideways.

not appropriate.

Amar7605 · 22 Apr 2005, 15:22 (Ref:1284636)

Quote:

Originally Posted by brightline

not appropriate.

I apologize, but lighten up, buddy! I was just joking

GBoehm · 22 Apr 2005, 16:28 (Ref:1284678)

You know Fontana is pretty close to LA, dare I say.... 500 mile race?.... Or maybe the Fontana Road Course.... My first CART race was Fontana in 2002. Seeing Vasser pass Andretti after the late restart. I was going to go in 2003...... Damn people who start fires......

Amar7605 · 23 Apr 2005, 05:57 (Ref:1284880)

GBoehm, I was also at the 02 race. Boy was it awesome!

I think at one time the FOntana road course was tossed around as a potential venue, but I doubt it would make for good CC racing, especially since CC's have a great history of oval racing.

trout · 24 Apr 2005, 02:52 (Ref:1285409)

Quote:

Originally Posted by indycool

You "fight for your territory" in business in private, not play it off in the media to try to leverage someone else. It POes them. You conduct your business with who's in charge of doing the deal, the LBGPA in this case, NOT the City Council.

Blasting off threats to the public will be met with hostility every time. KK set the battle lines. "You'll see what I do to you if you go with those guys." The LBGPA is put in the position of acquiescence or battle. If I'm Michaelian, I don't get pushed around like this.

Sometimes you do it in private and sometimes you do it in public. There is no cookie cutter approach to negotiating.

Personally, I agree with KK. Use the press - make sure you will not take it lying down. Being a nice guy and working the 'private' side went out the window as soon as Long Beach decided to open up a competition to see who would hold the race.

People in Long Beach feel offended? Why did you not feel offended that the CCWS might not be back? Hell, I was an Expos fan - now there's offended!!!

indycool · 24 Apr 2005, 12:55 (Ref:1285647)

And Baltimore is still POed about losing the Colts 20 years ago.

Guess we disagree, Trout....KK is trying to manipulate the LBGPA by the press and spiriting off Long Beach City Council members to San Jose on his Gulfstream to apply threats and pressure, trying to get some leverage against them. In truth, it doesn't matter what he tries to leverage, he hasn't got any. That rests with the LBGPA and its parent Dover on this deal.

If KK thinks he's going to get between the LBGPA and the City Council in THEIR town against the IRL, he's going to find out that those people live with each other 365 days a year and an outsider -- be it he or TG -- is not going to get it done that way. He's only going to turn them against him in the long run.

I doubt Long Beach knows what it's going to do at this point. Michaelian said 45-60 days because they want to get a better picture. A lot of that lies with the IRL '07 specs to be announced next month and what manufacturers are participating. Also has something to do with whether Dover wants to sell the race and get out of the street racing business completely or not....or if it has any potential buyers. Doubt if Kalkhoven or TG want to buy it outright, because the cost would be too high not winding up "owning property."

There's a lot of motion out there right now on Long Beach, but KK's approach, IMO, with threats of LA and sweet-talking the City Council ain't gonna cut it for CCWS.

trout · 24 Apr 2005, 13:46 (Ref:1285694)

Admittedly, if I was from Long Beach I would likely have a different perspective. As I am not, and since I am a CCWS fan, I say stick it to them!!

I've always enjoyed Long Beach but I will not watch an IRL race from there. That's just me

Snrub · 24 Apr 2005, 20:35 (Ref:1286239)

I think we can all agree that this is a political negotiation. Do politicians do all of their work in back rooms? Of course not, they get the public on board and leverage advantages that they may have. CC has a preceived public support advantage. The city signed onto a CC race, not an ALMS race or a cycling race, etc. If the city is concerned about the direction the LBGPA is taking them, they're going to use their influence to ensure things stay the same. Regarding the long term results, the choice is to sit back and lose the race, thus having the worst possible result, or cause unspecified short term damaged to the relationship with LBGPA/Dover.

Imagine if CC wanted to run a street race in Indy the same day as the 500 (we all know that would be a flop). Would it be wrong of TG get involved and express concern that such an event might hurt the 500 and not be the best thing for the city?

indycool · 24 Apr 2005, 22:55 (Ref:1286350)

Difference: TG resides in Indianapolis and the Speedway is in Indianapolis. In the case of CCWS at Long Beach, it's not a "home game" business arrangement.

trout · 25 Apr 2005, 00:16 (Ref:1286417)

Indy,

That's a dangerous argument. You can only woo public servants if that is your home town? You can only negotiate in the press if, sentimentaly (sic) and perceptually, it is injuring your 'home' town sport?

You'll have to explain that a little more clearly to us?

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