Top Hat Goodwood Sprint now a Test Day/Masters Issues?

[Peter Mallett]

Saturday 9th June was to be a Top Hat Sprint for around 36 cars. It seems that very few wanted to take advantage of this offer so now it is an open test day for any Masters/Top Hat car and drivers who wish to enter.

The reason I'm posting this is because I know some of the more (let's say) influential Historic Racers/Preparers are very keen on the Masters/Top Hat format and also very supportive.

Is there a groundswell of dissatisfaction in some of the drivers who for whatever reason don't want to join in with Masters this year?

I know we've had the money argument already but for what its worth, the fees don't stack up too badly against the 10 lap sprint race fees being charged this year. And I believe only the CSCC can offer something close to equivalent track time for less money.

So, what exactly is going on here? Am I reading too much into this?

For my part I hope the events will continue because I like to race on the best circuits in the UK and Europe (employment permitting of course), but things like this are of concern.

[Alan Morgan]

The costs certainly play a part, but it is the attitude towards the costs that annoys some people.

I should preface all the things I am about to say with the fact that I had no personal financial involvement, and all the things I am saying were told to me by a disgruntled driver.

I was fortunate enough to be invited to co-drive a car in Gentleman Drivers last year. The owner had paid his entry fees in advance, as requested, nearly £3000, well before the start of the season. Pau went ok, but at Brands, the engine blew. By the time he was told that the engine repair was going to take longer than expected, the 30 day deadline had passed for a couple of races for which he had entered. As far as I'm aware, the response was "tough - we made the rules clear - cancel within 30 days of the meeting, and you forfeit your entry fee". Result - £1200 of lost entry fees, on top of a £6000 engine rebuild.

Now, I am sure there are two sides to this story, and I'm not sure if an amicable solution was ever reached (I'll ask him next time I see him). However, 1200 quid is a lot of money to someone who is paying for his own racing, and maybe a credit against future races might have been a more appropriate solution.

It would appear that the Masters Series are in danger of alienating several European race organisers. The kind of clientele they attact is the successful business person who wants to have a nice weekend away racing, before returning to the rigours of running a successful business on Monday morning. As a successful business person, where would you rather be racing this weekend? - Brands or Pau?

They are both wet, though!

[Peter Mallett]

Personally I haven't had that problem yet (and hopefully won't) but if it is true then I can sympathise. But is that the main issue?

[daj]

I have got another one for you, Will let my father explain if he can be bothered after he cools off. He was at Brands this weekend with four cars, While standing in the hospitality as guests with the cars owners, he and another team member was asked to leave as MECHANICS WERE NOT WELCOME !?!?!?!?, This is bearing in mind that we have also personally donated over £800 to this ******** through Top Hat racing this season!!

I have to admit with what my dad contributes to Historic motorsport and his working colleagues if I was there racing or helping I would of found it very hard to resist to express my feelings to what he can now do with his precious Masters series.

Well I can openly express that my car will not attend another Masters/Top hat race.

Best regards

daj

[esper]

Originally Posted by daj

I have got another one for you, Will let my father explain if he can be bothered after he cools off. He was at Brands this weekend with four cars, While standing in the hospitality as guests with the cars owners, he and another team member was asked to leave as MECHANICS WERE NOT WELCOME !?!?!?!?, This is bearing in mind that we have also personally donated over £800 to this ******** through Top Hat racing this season!!

I have to admit with what my dad contributes to Historic motorsport and his working colleagues if I was there racing or helping I would of found it very hard to resist to express my feelings to what he can now do with his precious Masters series.

Well I can openly express that my car will not attend another Masters/Top hat race.

Best regards

daj

so does a mechanic look different to a driver when not racing??????????
Was there a computerised black fingernail test, special eyescan ?????

[Peter Mallett]

Daj,

Very sad on two counts. First the attitude in the hospitality area and second a loss of a car on the grid.

[zefarelly]

MAstters hospitality is somewhat off topic. its potentially a long discussion in its own right

the sprint at Goodwood being changed is no suprise to me, a test day for those who want it is a much better idea.

[Peter Mallett]

Well the point of the thread was more to find out if the change of event was more to do with Masters attitudes etc. than just whether a test rather than a sprint at Goodwood is a good idea.

[zefarelly]

have you asked them ?

[Peter Mallett]

Cause and effect. I know the effect I wondered what the cause was.

[zefarelly]

multiple choice answer perhaps

no interest

or

pointless event

or . . . both

Local motor clubs organise sprints all over the land, and Goodwood, like all other commercial circuits, has regular track/test days

Masters offering here is some hospitality on the day and perhaps more appealing to some a Saturday event rather than a school day!

[rogerwills]

The Goodwood day clashes with the HSCC 3 hour race at Snetterton which I and a few others have chosen over the Goodwood event.

On mechanics in the hospitality tent, we were all given wrist bands and it didn't matter if a mechanic, driver or whoever had them on, they were allowed in the tent. No wrist band, no access. My mechanics ate and drank in there (with me) happily all weekend so there is certainly no prejudice against mechanics. They only have a limited amount of space (but the new trailer and marquee setup is awesome) and they have to draw the line somewhere. When you see the size of some of the crews its no wonder they can't have everyone in or no drivers would ever get a seat, food or drink.

I heard a number of people say things like "the hospitality tent is why we pay our Masters fees and is money very well spent" and when there is vertical rain outside and a nice tent with good food, drink etc I have to agree.

Roger

[zefarelly]

we don't get vertical rain in this country, only horizontal or 45 degrees!

I didn't realise the HSCC Snet meet was the same weekend.

hospitality issues are very specific, 1 entrant may have 1 car and a team of 4 or more whereas another may be on his own with a helper and 3 cars . . . its a no win situation, and as you say there has to be a line somewhere.

[rogerwills]

Sorry Zef, I meant horizontal rain of course!

[daj]

Originally Posted by rogerwills

The Goodwood day clashes with the HSCC 3 hour race at Snetterton which I and a few others have chosen over the Goodwood event.

On mechanics in the hospitality tent, we were all given wrist bands and it didn't matter if a mechanic, driver or whoever had them on, they were allowed in the tent. No wrist band, no access. My mechanics ate and drank in there (with me) happily all weekend so there is certainly no prejudice against mechanics. They only have a limited amount of space (but the new trailer and marquee setup is awesome) and they have to draw the line somewhere. When you see the size of some of the crews its no wonder they can't have everyone in or no drivers would ever get a seat, food or drink.

I heard a number of people say things like "the hospitality tent is why we pay our Masters fees and is money very well spent" and when there is vertical rain outside and a nice tent with good food, drink etc I have to agree.

Roger

Roger,

There was two of them who both had wristbands...It was the attitude that sucked.. I would also like to point out that I have recieved private messages over this with various issues with poor attitudes within the Masters including wives been shown up been demanded to show there bands etc.

"no prejudice against mechanics" Thats a fair comment from your point of view but when you are told " Mechanics are not welcome" from the great man himself I beg to differ what they are really wanting in there.

As for the awsome new marquee I wouldnt know...Some of us ( Top Hatters ) pay the same money but still get the tent that we didnt have to pay for in the past?!!?

daj

[rogerwills]

Daj,

Sounds like you got a rough deal. I can only repeat my experience where my 2 mechanics were made more than welcome, ate and drank and not an issue at all. Sorry you had a rough time. Why not take it up with the driver's representative for Top Hat?

Roger

[daj]

Hello Roger,

To be honest I wasnt there myself, It just made me so angry when my father came home from Brands and told me, These men give there lives to this sport with such a passion, and the thought of someone looking down on them and making them feeling unwelcome when without these men he wouldnt even have his stupid tent as there wouldnt be any cars still racing round circuits to pay for it.

Best regards

daj

[rogerwills]

Agreed! But I'm really surprised if they had wristbands on that they would be asked to leave. This is what the memo that came with the wristbands says:

__________________________

Please find enclosed your hospitality passes for this weekend. Each registered driver/Masters Member is entitled to 3 passes.

Should you require additional wristbands they are available for purchase from Jo at the hospitality hot desk for £25 per adult per day and £10 per child per day.

Please ensure that you are wearing your wristband at all times. Our staff will need to see the band.

No wristband
No entry
No exceptions!!

___________________________

As I said, they were certainly asking everyone to show their wristbands and turning people away who didn't have them on.

[rpj]

Hello Roger,
Unfortunately I am know by said person as I helped get his car to a certain cuircuit on the Med when there was no such thing as Master's. I must say that at the time I was not wearing my " wrist band " due to working on the cars, but I felt I was asked to leave not because I did not have a wrist band but more because I was a mechanic, when the band was shown I was told we do not mind you coming in the evening. As I seem to recall I as well as many others where working under terrible conditions, on pit wall, in paddock to keep all the cars going, while most, but not all the drivers were living it up in the " tent ". Rant now over, lets leave it at that?
Regards.