Jaguars credibility - total sell out?

NiceGuyEddie · 12 Oct 2003, 19:28 (Ref:748643)

In Holland the rumour has taken off that Verstappen has received a photoshop manipulated photo from Jaguar Racing, in which the Jaguar-driversuit is pictured with the names of Jos personal sponsors. Apperantly to try and convince them that they need to sponsor up Jaguar and pay for Jos' seat in the second Jaguar as a consequence.

Question is, how much credibility will Jaguar Racing loose in an international sense, when they hire Jos Verstappen for his money and honor his demand that he gets a car which is equal to Webbers (no, honestly, that is his -or his sponsors- demand!)?

Or will the actually gain credibility?

Or won't it matter and can they hire anyone for his or her money without losing out on the image-side of business and is money a valid reason to hire just about anyone who can cough up the dough?

I could ask this on any Dutch forum, but I won't because the answer would be just too easy.

Knowlesy · 12 Oct 2003, 19:39 (Ref:748656)

Their credibility as a factory team would be lost almost certainly. This is behaviour of a lower grid team, not a team that aspires to be champions in five or so years.

And even so, there are better pay drivers. But non can match the financial clout of Jos and his seriously mislead Dutch investors.

**Adam43** · 12 Oct 2003, 20:00 (Ref:748679)

This assumes that they have some credibility to lose.

Knowlesy · 12 Oct 2003, 20:02 (Ref:748680)

Oh they did at one point! The '99 off season!

Smokey 6 litre · 12 Oct 2003, 20:30 (Ref:748705)

Why would Jaguar need to do this, unless Jag bosses are getting unhgappy at the ammount of money used but the lack of success.
Jos will bring the money but the success! i dont think so.

BootsOntheSide · 12 Oct 2003, 21:35 (Ref:748770)

I hope this isn't true, but sometimes oyu don't know what to expect from jaguar. 2003 has been such a good season from them, and Wilson's presence and recent impressive form has capped it. What a shame tehy could end up running a has-been in the 'lead' car. I feel sorry for thos ein the raicng side, because I doubt the decision is really theirs

vatuloa · 12 Oct 2003, 21:56 (Ref:748796)

Jaguars performance at the japanese Grand Prix was deplorable and before they look at the drivers they need to look at themselves. You would have thought the car they used on the weekend was a rebadged Minardi. I can't see how they can judge Justin Wilson performance on that race. It would't matter if they had M S driving the car on the weekend the only problem he would have had is betting any of the top 7 teams drivers.

Mark Webber · 12 Oct 2003, 22:08 (Ref:748804)

IT won't change alot from this year Webber will have to score all the points again

Raven · 12 Oct 2003, 22:28 (Ref:748826)

To me, #2 as I already know Jaguar is a one car team, and even Schumacher in the 2nd car would do well to be within half a second of Webber.

But to the rest of the world, #1, as it would become blatantly obvious as to how they're running things.

Raven · 12 Oct 2003, 22:32 (Ref:748831)

On the other hand, a drive in F1 is a drive in F1 - and Jos Verstappen doesn't deserve one.

Mark Webber · 12 Oct 2003, 23:59 (Ref:748894)

I've read nothing of this bar in 10-10ths is this just rumor our the horrible truth?

DieRitter · 13 Oct 2003, 01:57 (Ref:748950)

It's not a matter of changing the driver line-up! Ford needs to change the management... Bring back real pros like Paul Stewart or Niki Lauda!

Looks like a miracle to me to see the Pizza Boy half a second quicker than Marc Gene... Even Patrick Head was impressed.

Poor Justin Wilson... the guy beats Mark Webber in F3000, works out a way to pay his way in F1... and doesn't get a decent car.

DieRitter · 13 Oct 2003, 02:00 (Ref:748953)

Mark Webber is a good driver... but that second jag is definitely cursed.

Solution? Villeneuve! I don't like the bloke... but his attitude would be great.

The Lounge King · 13 Oct 2003, 02:09 (Ref:748957)

Why not Jos.

Jag are not going to be threatening the big teams next year, so why not pick someone with money over someone without.

Mark Webber · 13 Oct 2003, 02:32 (Ref:748965)

Quote:

Originally posted by DieRitter
It's not a matter of changing the driver line-up! Ford needs to change the management... Bring back real pros like Paul Stewart or Niki Lauda!

Looks like a miracle to me to see the Pizza Boy half a second quicker than Marc Gene... Even Patrick Head was impressed.

Poor Justin Wilson... the guy beats Mark Webber in F3000, works out a way to pay his way in F1... and doesn't get a decent car.

Your joking right Niki and former management caused the problems current management is fixing the faults .

(I) By The Lounge King (/I)

Why not Jos.

Jag are not going to be threatening the big teams next year, so why not pick someone with money over someone without.

They could With Mark actually having input in the R5
and a decent point scoring driver in the 2nd car damn right thet could challage teams like Renualt with a point scoring 2nd driver they could have done it this year
Joss is good for money, not for development

DieRitter · 13 Oct 2003, 03:39 (Ref:748991)

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Webber
[B]Your joking right Niki and former management caused the problems current management is fixing the faults .

Well... you're a Mark Webber fan, so you probably don't realise how the jag management team is seen at the paddock.

Purnell is an engineer... and will never have the charisma to lead a f1 team. His PR was a joke... burnt Pizzonia and if Wilson doesn't watch out, he's the next.

I'm all praise to Paul and Jackie Stewart... shame they don't have much input in the current team.

I agree that Lauda sometimes talks too much... but the money that was spent on the R4 were his work.

A lot of insiders say that the team were extremely unfair at Pizzonia because of internal politics...

And today, that's jaguar: POLITICS!

Hope Mark Webber survives that, he's a competent driver.

Mark Webber · 13 Oct 2003, 04:08 (Ref:749009)

I'm Politics is a major issue at Jag but the current management have not caused any problems (so FAR )

jetsetter · 13 Oct 2003, 07:01 (Ref:749090)

I thibnk that Webber has made the Jaguar look better at times this year than it really is & i personally can't see Jos being the answer no matter how much he brings to the team.

Super Tourer · 13 Oct 2003, 07:15 (Ref:749104)

Putting personalities aside, you have to question the commitment from any manufacturer team that needs a pay driver for the 2nd seat.

IMO, it comes down to the budget pressure from Ford, who allegedly want to reduce their financial input next year ( I have read by 10%), due to the aggresive cost cutting regime that they have had to implement in their business.

You cannot do F1 half heartedly, Jaguar have got the results this year via Webber and being on Michelin's, which was the tyre to have over the balance of the year. To maintain that next season with arguably stronger mid grid competition from Toyota, Sauber and (maybe) BAR - is a tough task.

It's rumoured Red Bull are interested in sponsoring Jaguar, but no doubt any deal would come with a driver choice from the sponsor.

If you want to be free to choose your drivers, you need to pay for it yourself, as Renault, Ferrari, BMW Williams, etc, etc do, and that's what seperates Jaguar from their peers.

Gt_R · 13 Oct 2003, 07:49 (Ref:749137)

I understand there are some Jos fans, but unfortunately, by hiring Jos, Jag would cast some serious doubts, by fans, public, competitors as well as other sponsors, about Jaguar's real purpose. To want and compete with the top level, to be the British-Green Ferrari of England, you simply can't hire an average driver with your eye on the sponsorship they bring.

Jaguar came like BAR with big ambitions, but failed to deliver. However, after a couple of pathetic seasons that even Minardi can be ashamed of, Jaguar had shown signs of improving this year. The signing of Webber, the re-organisation of the whole team, and even the new car are all great signs of a team aiming to do well. To suddenly sign a driver like Jos would simply ruin it all. But it's not surprising if Ford once again display impulsive stupidity.

Jaguar had a few really good guys working for their team, but like Ferrari many years ago, seem to be more bothered about internal politics and a poor management. They spent more time than they could afford to find their footings in F1, and it's high time they deliver. Stewart had did well with Stewart-Ford in 99, and Jaguar, had made the mistake of making too many changes that shook the foundation of Stewart GP into pieces.

There are few freebies in the real and practical world of F1. Jaguar has to seriously set their sight on a good driver or to nurture a young gun.

racer69 · 13 Oct 2003, 09:59 (Ref:749258)

Why not hire Verstappen, with the money worries Ford are having, someone has to pay for the development on Webber's car

Logrence · 14 Oct 2003, 11:54 (Ref:750774)

If Jaguar hire Jos Verstappen, I'll be a) blocking Steve Nielsen, and b) turning off my television every time one of them appears on the screen.

I think I might email and tell them that...

Oh wait. I have better things to do.

Knowlesy · 14 Oct 2003, 16:50 (Ref:751091)

One things for sure, it'll be fun seeing Verstappen lapping 2 seconds a lap slower than "super Aussie". Maybe then he'll decide to retire after his illustrious career.

Just think people. This man has:

Started 107 Grand Prix!

Scored a whopping 17 (yes, 17!) points!

Driven 10 races in a championship winning car and scored a whopping 10 (you read that right, 10!) points which were all amassed in 3 races!

Driven 4 pointless seasons!

Been fired mid-season twice!

Holds the following gobsmacking records!:

1. Most 14th Fastest Laps in a Season (4) – set at 2001 Japan!

2. Most 16th Fastest Laps in a Season (6) – set at 2003 Italy!

3. Most 17th Fastest Laps (18) – set at 2003 Malaysia!

4. Most 17th Place Qualifications (13) – set at 2003 Japan!

5. Most 19th Place Qualifications (16) – set at 2003 USA!

It is quite clear to me that we have a champion in the making here!

DriverT · 15 Oct 2003, 07:23 (Ref:751774)

Quote:

Originally posted by NiceGuyEddie
In Holland the rumour has taken off that Verstappen has received a photoshop manipulated photo from Jaguar Racing, in which the Jaguar-driversuit is pictured with the names of Jos personal sponsors. Apperantly to try and convince them that they need to sponsor up Jaguar and pay for Jos' seat in the second Jaguar as a consequence.

Ah how low do they want to go? Editing images with Photoshop? My God.

DriverT · 15 Oct 2003, 07:25 (Ref:751775)

Quote:

Originally posted by knowlesy
One things for sure, it'll be fun seeing Verstappen lapping 2 seconds a lap slower than "super Aussie". Maybe then he'll decide to retire after his illustrious career.

Just think people. This man has...

I'd like to see your post on a Dutch forum

But you are right, though.

View Poll Results: What will hiring Jos Verstappen for his money mean for Jaguars credibility and image?
It will make them loose all the credibility they have, plus it will give them an image as being sell outs.	35	57.38%
It won't really matter. Who cares who is driving that second Jag anyway?	13	21.31%
They'll actually gain credibility. It's about time someone gave Jos a fair shot at WC-points, even if it is at an extreme price.	13	21.31%
Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll

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