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Old 16 May 2020, 02:12 (Ref:3976531)   #401
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The theme of Ferrari with Indy Cars or WEC for me is very different this time to the others times. Now they are not threatening to leave F1.
I suppose that all this will depend on how much budget is available after the Covid 19, but now the budget of Ferrari is about 300 or 350 millions and the budget limit for 2021 will be 145 millions therefore there will be a lot of budget available to make F1, WEC and Indy Cars all together.
In addition, a Hypercar WEC program would allow to recover a large part of the development expenses with the sale of the cars. I remember that they sold 40 Ferraris 333 SP and they planned to sell 25 F50 GT.
In Indy Cars maybe it could be 6, 7 or 8 Ferraris on the grid.
Also I suppose that they will be analyzing if they could develop in Indy or in the WEC pieces that later could be used in F1 and of course this development would be outside of the 145 millions. I remember that the current V6 Hybrid was tested in 2013 on a LaFerrari prototype. Toyota will make a test of 24 hours in Paul Richard in the next 2 months with the TS050 and that is prohibited in F1, and also the hours of wind tunnel and CFD will be limited.
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Old 16 May 2020, 05:25 (Ref:3976538)   #402
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Indy car runs a spec chassis - Dallara and engine suppliers must supply or be prepared to supply a proportion of the field , neither of which I can see Ferrari being prepared to do so it’s hard to see how they would get involved.
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Old 16 May 2020, 08:29 (Ref:3976549)   #403
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That pretty much defeats the whole idea then
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Old 16 May 2020, 10:28 (Ref:3976562)   #404
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I think most sane people considered it 'defeated' before it even 'started'.....
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Old 16 May 2020, 10:57 (Ref:3976568)   #405
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We'll put Andretti in the non-sane category:

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Just to add to the Ferrari rumour. Mario Andretti would like to a Dallara v Ferrari battle.

https://f1i.com/news/373057-andretti...n-indycar.html
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Old 16 May 2020, 11:14 (Ref:3976575)   #406
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P38 in workshop has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
no reason why you couldn't put a Ferrari engine on the back of the standard Dallara chassis.Of course that would make it all Italian and maybe do something for national pride.Have I read something about future IRL engines gaining a hybrid element?That could be an outlet for a bit of electric powertrain knowledge.Or the whole thing could be as crap as the eighties Alfa engine in CART.
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Old 16 May 2020, 14:17 (Ref:3976597)   #407
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Andretti wants all-Italian Dallara v Ferrari battle in IndyCar

"Having Ferrari would be incredible. Not only as an engine supplier, but also as a chassis builder," said the 1978 F1 world champion and four-time IndyCar champion.

"It is clear that the rules should be changed, but I would like an all-Italian Dallara vs. Ferrari battle. The Cavallino would increase interest in the championship, but there is an obstacle in the rules.

"I suggest Binotto comes and proposes an idea to Roger Penske."

Indeed, Ferrari's involvement in the US series would require a rule change that would open up current engine and chassis supply agreements beyond Honda and Chevrolet for the former, and Dallara for the latter.

https://f1i.com/news/373057-andretti...n-indycar.html
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Old 16 May 2020, 14:26 (Ref:3976598)   #408
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There's more chance of me winning the bronze in female gymnastics than there is of getting a Ferrari v Dallara battle in IndyCar like described there lol.
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Old 16 May 2020, 15:05 (Ref:3976601)   #409
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Indy car runs a spec chassis - Dallara and engine suppliers must supply or be prepared to supply a proportion of the field , neither of which I can see Ferrari being prepared to do so it’s hard to see how they would get involved.
In 2010, When IndyCar announced a new chassis and engine spec for 2012-2017, there were initially three engine manufacturers: Chevrolet, Honda and Lotus; the latter was developed and built by Judd. The Lotus/Judd venture only lasted for the 2012 season and since then, IndyCar have been looking for a third manufacturer.

HPD in California (Honda Performabce Development), who design and build the Honda engine, have come under a lot of pressure, as they currently supply more teams than Chevrolet. If Ferrari were to come on board, it would end IndyCar's search for a third engine manufacturer and take the heat off HPD.
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Old 16 May 2020, 20:57 (Ref:3976661)   #410
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There's more chance of me winning the bronze in female gymnastics than there is of getting a Ferrari v Dallara battle in IndyCar like described there lol.
Better be televised.

How do you look in a leotard?
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Old 17 May 2020, 10:55 (Ref:3976729)   #411
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Better be televised.

How do you look in a leotard?
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Old 17 May 2020, 11:53 (Ref:3976745)   #412
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Why is that not your profile picture?
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Old 17 May 2020, 12:24 (Ref:3976749)   #413
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Why is that not your profile picture?
I am to please...
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Old 17 May 2020, 12:29 (Ref:3976750)   #414
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Old 17 May 2020, 15:30 (Ref:3976765)   #415
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I should have kept my mouth shut......
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Old 25 May 2020, 00:15 (Ref:3978145)   #416
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It is going to be interesting to see how Ferrari goes without Vettel, BJ said that the fact that neither Alonso or Vettel won a WDC while at Ferrari said more about Ferrari than it did about either of the drivers is pretty accurate.
Leclerc will now be team leader and will have to absorb all the pressure from the Scuderia politics, the Italian press and a new team mate. Wonder if they will have time to actually race?
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Old 28 May 2020, 19:35 (Ref:3979000)   #417
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There's more chance of me winning the bronze in female gymnastics than there is of getting a Ferrari v Dallara battle in IndyCar like described there lol.
How so? Ferrari were happy to supply the A1GP spec car. I don't think a 'engineering battle' is necessary or desirable, but with balance-of-performance and fixed regulated pricing I don't see having two chassis as being a problem for Indycar.


Marco Andretti in Ferrari

Although the scenario on who actually built the A1GP car seems complex...

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"Its a single seater racecar, with the look of a Ferrari F2004/F2005" The design group has been headed up by John Travis, who was also responsible for the Epsilon Euskadi LMP1 and Lola Champ Car. Last week the new chassis was having its fuel cell fitted at ATL in Milton Keynes, England but is now back at its workshop under construction.
https://www.racecar-engineering.com/.../a1gp-ferrari/
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Old 28 May 2020, 19:41 (Ref:3979003)   #418
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That pretty much defeats the whole idea then
How so? Selling Indycar engine supplies would be a customer business to generate revenue for Ferrari.
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Old 28 May 2020, 20:01 (Ref:3979016)   #419
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How so? Ferrari were happy to supply the A1GP spec car. I don't think a 'engineering battle' is necessary or desirable, but with balance-of-performance and fixed regulated pricing I don't see having two chassis as being a problem for Indycar.


Marco Andretti in Ferrari

Although the scenario on who actually built the A1GP car seems complex...


https://www.racecar-engineering.com/.../a1gp-ferrari/
I always thought it was a Lola B05-52.
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Old 28 May 2020, 20:23 (Ref:3979020)   #420
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It was based on the Ferrari F2004 with help from Rory Byrne
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Old 28 May 2020, 21:41 (Ref:3979033)   #421
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How so? Ferrari were happy to supply the A1GP spec car. I don't think a 'engineering battle' is necessary or desirable, but with balance-of-performance and fixed regulated pricing I don't see having two chassis as being a problem for Indycar.
Work and drama on the part of IndyCar to get them back to where they are today. Even then, with a strategy of BoP, it's likely that one chassis will have pros/cons of the other and it may be different depending upon type of track.

Would teams have to declare one type of chassis for the entire season or would you have wealthy teams having both and selecting which to use on a race by race basis?

BoP on engines is easier to do. Especially if they are relatively simple engines.

Richard
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Old 29 May 2020, 12:45 (Ref:3979148)   #422
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Work and drama on the part of IndyCar to get them back to where they are today. Even then, with a strategy of BoP, it's likely that one chassis will have pros/cons of the other and it may be different depending upon type of track.

Would teams have to declare one type of chassis for the entire season or would you have wealthy teams having both and selecting which to use on a race by race basis?

BoP on engines is easier to do. Especially if they are relatively simple engines.

Richard
Two different chassis sounds overly complicated and very likely cost prohibitive. Irrc, the last time a team ran two chassis was Target Chip Ganassi in the 2006 IRL IndyCar season, when they specifically used the Dallara on ovals and the Panoz G-Force on road tracks.
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Old 2 Jun 2020, 21:32 (Ref:3979882)   #423
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How so? Ferrari were happy to supply the A1GP spec car. I don't think a 'engineering battle' is necessary or desirable, but with balance-of-performance and fixed regulated pricing I don't see having two chassis as being a problem for Indycar.


Marco Andretti in Ferrari

Although the scenario on who actually built the A1GP car seems complex...


https://www.racecar-engineering.com/.../a1gp-ferrari/
Note that I said "as described here". A1GP was a completely different situation to what was described before, lol.
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Old 3 Jun 2020, 06:37 (Ref:3979911)   #424
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Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks View Post
How so? Ferrari were happy to supply the A1GP spec car. I don't think a 'engineering battle' is necessary or desirable, but with balance-of-performance and fixed regulated pricing I don't see having two chassis as being a problem for Indycar.


Marco Andretti in Ferrari

Although the scenario on who actually built the A1GP car seems complex...


https://www.racecar-engineering.com/.../a1gp-ferrari/
Ferrari didnt supply the car - indeed when the prototype arrived in Maranello for a test the badge was removed, they were built in UK The engine supply suited them as it provided a direct injection test bed for future GT motors
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Old 12 Jul 2020, 01:50 (Ref:3987537)   #425
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Ferrari are in an interesting place at the moment so what will they do and can F1 as a brand tolerate them as back markers or perhaps their bluff should be called on their many calls to leave the sport. It would be an interesting debate whether they have brought the sport into disrepute via their alleged cheating and the NDA that subsequenlty quashed disclosure of what ever did or didn't happen and at whose behest that NDA was put in place. Was it to protect Ferrari's value on the stockmarket for instance or to protect the inability of the FIA to detect and prevent cheating of this nature. Corporate misbeaviour in public companies can result in legal proceedings BTW.

Another issue that can be raised is how the drivers did not know of any cheating because their cooperation would be needed and there would be talk within the team of what was going on at the time. So can the drivers be blamed for driving cars that they knew were not legal, in the past this question has always been ignored when it was patently obvious the drivers knew and profited from the cheats. Why aren't drivers punished for driving cars that they know are not legal?

The NDA is the problem not the cheating itself. In every other cheating case there has been absolute transparency as far as we are aware but this time the NDA prevents that and the other teams could rightfully say that if it was good enough for our cheating to be publicly acknowledged then what is different this time. Trying to bat this away with comparing this episode of cheating with other major cheats in the past is not the point at all, the NDA is the point.

I wonder if LeClerc is happy with joining Ferrari as he was and thinks his long term contract is such a good thing now. Certainly if this period of bad performance goes on right through hs existing contract then it will definitely harm his career prospects of getting into another team that has a chance of making him WDC some time before he retires. It seem that Ferrari do not have a good record of creating drivers to be WDC when compared to other teams so it could be pressional suicide to join them in that pursuit. it will be interesting if Vettel opens up and talks but he won't do that because other teams would not employ him in fear he would do the same to them so perhaps he might retire then open up.

Perhaps Karma is an appropriate word for what is happening.
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