Disabled drivers.

[Down F0rce]

In the F1 forum we have been talking about Alex Zanardi's comments that he would like to race at Monza in a Formula One car again:

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91309

This got my thinking as to what the marshals (among others) would need to do to prepare for a disabled driver in a race.

But who better to ask than you guys! Have any of you been a marshal for a race where there has been a disabled driver competing? What, if anything, did you have to do differently? Have you even been involved in an incident with a disabled driver?

[stroller]

There shouldn't be a problem with disabled drivers.

There should be a clear indication on the car that the driver was disabled which should lead any Marshals at an incident to check what if anything different is required from the driver him/herself. They usually know what is the best way of dealing with their own situation.

I've Marshaled while disabled drivers competing - sometimes this info is passed on to Observers from Race Control - who should then pass it on down the line to the people on the bank.

It all boils down to always being alert to ANY situation.

[Stephen Green]

Indeed, Stroller makes some very valuable points.

Disabled drivers have to carry the letter D next to their race number. Marshals are normally informed at their briefing which driver it is, and in which race(s) they are participating.

In the event of a sserious accident I imagine they would be treated in pretty much the same way as any other driver. The only minus factor is the time it might take them to vacate the car if it were on fire.

[graeme]

Originally Posted by Stephen Green

Disabled drivers have to carry the letter D next to their race number.

Which is distinguishable from drivers racing in class D by...?

[chezza]

Originally Posted by Stephen Green

In the event of a sserious accident I imagine they would be treated in pretty much the same way as any other driver. The only minus factor is the time it might take them to vacate the car if it were on fire.

All disabled drivers have to prove that they can pass the evacuation test in order to retain their licence. I wonder how many of the able bodied drivers would be able to do this if tested?

Originally Posted by graeme

Which is distinguishable from drivers racing in class D by...?

It is a white D on a blue square iirc, so distinguishable from a class letter.

[Robin_D]

Well surely Zanardi would be able to exit a Formula One car quicker than a Touring car??

[Pike]

Depends really, anybody once round the rollcage can kind of fall out of a touring car, in F1/single seaters the driver has to be able to lift themselves out of the cockpit.

If Alex did return then would they have to make F1 numbers visable on the cars so marshals could work out where the D was supposed to be and not think its a advert!!??

[Steve Tarrant]

Originally Posted by graeme

Which is distinguishable from drivers racing in class D by...?

The letter "D" is white in a blue circle!

I've done both sides of the fence, as in marshalled disabled competitors and now being a disabled marshal.

The key thing when approaching them is to talk and listen!!!!! They know their disability, and their own capabilities, and therefore what assistance they need. Just be prepared to be adaptable, that you might need more than 1 person to lift / extract / etc.

And be prepared for the unexpected!!!! A few years ago in the long track kart series, there was a driver who'd lost the use of his legs and drove on hand controls. And because he couldn't use his lower body to prop himself up in the seat, he was fitted with a metal hoop that went around his waist and was then bolted to the back of the seat. To extract him, his mechanics always taped the required spanner to the back of the seat so that whoever got to him first could release him.

But if it's a case of life or death, the driver's been knocked out, etc, then you'd do the same as if he was an able bodied driver!

Legless!

[ianpearson]

[QUOTE=Steve Tarrant]

And be prepared for the unexpected!!!! A few years ago in the long track kart series, there was a driver who'd lost the use of his legs and drove on hand controls. And because he couldn't use his lower body to prop himself up in the seat, he was fitted with a metal hoop that went around his waist and was then bolted to the back of the seat. To extract him, his mechanics always taped the required spanner to the back of the seat so that whoever got to him first could release him.
QUOTE]

That sounds dangerous, i always thought the idea with karts was that you were thrown clear when it rolled, he would be rigidly held bolt upright probably breaking his neck.

what i've always wondered is, what happens when a disabled driver goes in the gravel, car gets stuck, you guys can't shift it & its not a championship that has a pace car. Surely you can't help them out & carry them to the bank under waved yellows.

Sorry if that question appears condisending to disabled drivers

[Steve Tarrant]

Originally Posted by ianpearson

That sounds dangerous, i always thought the idea with karts was that you were thrown clear when it rolled, he would be rigidly held bolt upright probably breaking his neck.

You can get trapped in there whether you're bolted in or not! It would depend on how the kart pitched as to whether that becomes a possibility or not.

Originally Posted by ianpearson

what i've always wondered is, what happens when a disabled driver goes in the gravel, car gets stuck, you guys can't shift it & its not a championship that has a pace car. Surely you can't help them out & carry them to the bank under waved yellows.

Yes you can, and if rescue need to be scrambled to help, they would cover it with their own larger vehicle as cover. I have seen that done. Obviously it would depend on what part of the track we are talking about, the type of extraction required, the estimated length of time for extraction, etc. No different to any other "crashed" vehicle on or by the side of the course, where an able bodied driver is knocked out / trapped / injured etc. The same rules apply.

Originally Posted by ianpearson

Sorry if that question appears condisending to disabled drivers

I am not viewing it like that at all, instead this is a chance for me to pass on personal knowledge for the good of all.

[chezza]

Originally Posted by Steve Tarrant

The letter "D" is white in a blue circle!

Oooh I was close then!

I always think that it would be useful if marshals were aware if there is a disabled driver in a race as this information isn't always passed down. I usually make sure the guys I am with when I am marshalling the championship I help out with know that we do have a disabled driver racing. It just means that they're more aware that something different might have to be done.

[Steve Tarrant]

Originally Posted by chezza

I always think that it would be useful if marshals were aware if there is a disabled driver in a race as this information isn't always passed down. I usually make sure the guys I am with when I am marshalling the championship I help out with know that we do have a disabled driver racing. It just means that they're more aware that something different might have to be done.

I agree - and it has happened in the past that in marshals briefs on post before the start of racing, observers have passed on this information to marshals, like when Jason Courage was racing Spyders. I was one of the marshals in question at that time!

[Peter Harding]

Originally Posted by chezza

All disabled drivers have to prove that they can pass the evacuation test in order to retain their licence. I wonder how many of the able bodied drivers would be able to do this if tested?



It is a white D on a blue square iirc, so distinguishable from a class letter.

They prove their capability to the MSA but nothing goes on the licence.
The driver MAY tell the CMO at the circuit (should do) but CMO is bound by confidentiality.
If an official knows he will normally tell the marshals.
The driver SHOULD have the "D" on his car (only on side of the disabled competitor) but I have known drivers refuse and no-one will follow it up as human rights laws etc might be offended if we insist.

So you might be told if anyone knows, there might be a "D" - Thats what I call a foolproof system.

[racerkeke]

My experience with disabled drivers on this side of the pond is that there is no single approach taken to identifying such drivers -- it differs from group to group.

A paraplegic drove in one of the Speed Touring classes at one point, and may still altho I did not see the car at Laguna in October. When this car was at an event the car number and any tips for helping/extracting the driver were outlined by the series steward at our morning meetings, and briefly reiterated over the landline before the first session the driver was in each day. We in fact had to use the instructions once when this driver stopped mechanical on the back stretch at Portland, and a grass fire started under the car.

Recently I worked a superkart race at Laguna Seca in which a paraplegic competed. Like the one discussed above he was also strapped in. We didn't receive specific instructions on how to respond to an incident he might be involved in at the morning meeting, but his kart number wasn't a number at all but rather his first name. Made it easy to know which one he was. We discussed how to respond among ourselves at the station before the karts came out, and it turned out the captain had been given instructions to pass on to us.

In local vintage racing some years ago we also had a Camaro driver who had had polio as a child. He had a special velcro holder made for his driver's door for his crutches. He ran a hand control car, and in order to race he had been required to show that he could get out of the belts and the car itself without the crutches in under a certain number of seconds. Otherwise no instructions were given at all.

So it's all over the map here. I'd like to see it more consistent.

keke

[garcon]

I'm sure some of you guys who've marshaled around the UK circuits for clubby events will know the Haynes brothers. Yes, the ones with the car manuals. One of them (can't for the life of me remember which - John?) is disabled, but races (or did until recently) quite competently in the Porsche Classic series in a rather nice old 911. A few years ago at Thruxton he had a huuuuge one when he went off at Church. Given the nature of that incident, I'm really not sure whether his disability made much difference - an able bodied driver would probably have been lifted out of the car in much the same way in case of any spinal injuries. There was a display about the accident and the rebuild of the car at the Haynes brothers' car museum in Yeovil. One thing I will say - if you're going to have a big one on the track, you can't choose much better than a 911 to protect you.

[beefy]

It's Mark Haynes. I've always been briefed about any disabled driver in the events I've covered. I thought disabled drivers had to prove they could get out of a car in the same amount of time as an abled bodied one. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Pike]

I think they do, however its one thing being able to get out of the car within a certain timescale, its a totally different proposition getting to a place of safety on their own though i.e. behind armco etc.

[garcon]

Originally Posted by beefy

It's Mark Haynes.

Course it is.... sorry Mark, if you're reading!

[chezza]

Yes as I said in a previous post...they have to be able to perform the evacuation test in a certain amount of time to retain their licence. I'm sure many able bodied racers wouldn't be able to do it, especially those who are on the larger side of things.

[Firefox]

If I remember this correctly an F1 driver should be able to exit the car unaided within 10 seconds. I don't recall at time limit for saloons or GTs, perhaps the Fat Clerk would know.
Much as I would like to see Alex in a grand prix car again I don't thinkhe would be able to meet the criteria, also I doubthe would be competitive enough even as a Friday tester.

[chezza]

its usually 30 secs for normal club racing iirc.

[FilW]

Originally Posted by chezza

its usually 30 secs for normal club racing iirc.

We got tested at Pembrey this year after a race and had to do it in under 5 seconds otherwise we were excluded!

[Cynic]

I forget the guys name, but wasn't there a Danish driver who raced world sports cars despite being paralysed from the waist down? In an interview he said that the FIA had told him that he could race anything except F1 and F3000 providing he could evacuate from the car within the required times - I would imagine that the same exclusions would apply to Zanardi.

[flags]

i remember mark haynes in the porkers, we were always briefed when he raced,,also another driver in F3 or formula renault(?) some time back, who had an artificial hand..he'd leave it attached to the steering wheel if he had to evacuate the car during the session ! i remember some shocked people at first,but we all got used to having him in the series. again we were briefed !

[chezza]

Originally Posted by FilW

We got tested at Pembrey this year after a race and had to do it in under 5 seconds otherwise we were excluded!

Blimey thats harsh...and knowing you lot I wonder how many actually passed!!!