Calder this weekend

[storyline]

LIke it has been said - stats can be used for many purposes!
Entry figures for the 3 Winton Masters Series in 2000 (as it was called that year) were 66, 65 and 138. The 2000 State Championship round in 2000 attraacted 199 entries and the round in 2001 attracted 228 entries.

Prior to that the two Champion of Winton Meetings held in 1999 attracted 119 and 96 competitors compared to the 1999 State meeting 228 entries.

(Yes doesn't help my 'discussion' about dropping number but overall, between the two series, they just about evened themselves out - the CoW series dropped and the State series rose.

[silver 2]

The 2 series did not clash-so they were not in direct competition so SRS cannot be blamed in that context.

[Heather Wallace]

Storyline – your information from your sources should be rechecked..

Benalla Auto Club owns Winton Motor Raceway and is run by a Committee of 11 people. The Chief Executive Officer is employed to implement the policies of the Committee of the Benalla Auto Club Inc.

This Committee has decided that the State Race Series can return to Winton Motor Raceway if the event is run by Winton. CAMS State Office and the State Race Series personnel have decreed that this will not happen.

Winton offered the State Race Series a weekend date to the run the event this year. To date Winton has not received a response from CAMS or the SRS.


Heather Wallace
Manager: Administration - Winton Motor Raceway

[storyline]

So the upshot then is that Mick is the 'voice' that they have been dealing with? I think we can both agree with that.

If what I am reading is correct - and please, correct me if I am wrong - the Committee who 'run' Winton are saying that the only way anyone can run a race meeting at Winton Motor Raceway is if Winton run the event? Would that be a fair summary of what you said?

If, for example, I wanted to hire the circuit to run a race meeting on behalf of the Vic State Race Series are you saying you won't permit this to happen?

(Yes or No answers only required on this by the way)

[Matthew Ronke]

Originally Posted by storyline

If, for example, I wanted to hire the circuit to run a race meeting on behalf of the Vic State Race Series are you saying you won't permit this to happen?

(Yes or No answers only required on this by the way)

I doubt it, I'm certain there would be somewhere a clause about being of reputable character.

Anyway the best way to reunite motorsport in Vic is for the VSRS to switch over their Sandown and Phillip Island meetings to AASA and combine them with the VMRC points score. Seeing there will more likely be more AASA race meets in Vic than CAMS next year this would be the smart move and solve their problems they have with Sandown and Phillip Island to a degree.

[storyline]

And it could be equally argued that it would be better for AASA to merge into the CAMS series next year, couldn't it?

WTH can't all of you just get together and work together?

[Falcadore]

Originally Posted by Matthew Ronke

I doubt it, I'm certain there would be somewhere a clause about being of reputable character.

Anyway the best way to reunite motorsport in Vic is for the VSRS to switch over their Sandown and Phillip Island meetings to AASA and combine them with the VMRC points score. Seeing there will more likely be more AASA race meets in Vic than CAMS next year this would be the smart move and solve their problems they have with Sandown and Phillip Island to a degree.

Isn't that a rather niave and unhelpful statement considering that, as I am led to believe, that PIARC are as pro-CAMS as BAC/Jane is pro-AASA?

[silver 2]

Discussions have been taking place have they not? Mathew? Heather? Why is Winton different to the position of others? There is no reason other than Wintons own resistance to the concept. To say a date was offered this year-- for the same day as the Bathurst 1000 . Even Mick was tongue in cheek with that.
I do not want to join the anti Winton pushing as that is not where I started.More voices joining in creating the us and them mentality is not why I have commented. See my earlier views on CAMS.
I have urged a rethink not a regurgitation of past ills .It will take big men (metaphorically speaking) to create something here and do the right thing by the competitors and therefore motorsport in general,
Mathews tongue in cheek comments re reverse takeover might prove possible if the first steps are taken.
How do you know Storyline is not reputable? I originally thought he was one of your lot at Winton!

[BFC]

isnt PIARC CAMS???????

[Camaroz]

Originally Posted by Heather Wallace

This Committee has decided that the State Race Series can return to Winton Motor Raceway if the event is run by Winton. CAMS State Office and the State Race Series personnel have decreed that this will not happen.

Heather Wallace
Manager: Administration - Winton Motor Raceway

Heather, just looking for some clarification here, you reference Benalla Auto Club (BAC), Benalla Auto Club Inc (BAC Inc) and 'Winton' as separate entities in your post!

Are they different entities?

Is there a BAC, BAC Inc and a 'Winton'?

Is 'Winton' a Management Company appointed by BAC or BAC Inc?

The offer (Bathurst Weekend aside) to run a SRS round if it was run by 'Winton! Was this an offer for the BAC to run the round or BAC Inc to run the round or 'Winton' to run the round?

What were the CAMS reasons for not allowing this round?

What were the 'clubs' reactions (is this who you mean by 'personnel') to 'Winton' running this round?

As the SRS grew out of 'Clubs' (MG, ASSA, PIARC etc) running the rounds, did BAC (or BAC Inc) ever support this initiative or did the BAC (BAC Inc) concentrate on the CoW Series?

Looking foward.....

[silver 2]

Winton Motor Raceway is the manager of the circuit for Benalla Auto Club ? Is that correct? Does someone know the answer?

[storyline]

Winton Motor Raceway is the Victorian busniess name registered for the track (B1485892G) whereas Winton Motor Raceway Pty. Limited (ACN 094 491 264) is the company set up to run the track ( http://www.search.asic.gov.au/cgi-bi...=ACN&srchsrc=1 ). Set up in Sept 2000.

Interesting that ASIC doesn't show any annual return for this company since Feb 2003 - does this indicate that they haven't done their 2004 return ot that ASIC is extremely slow? Wouldn't have thought even ASIC were that slow.

[Uncle Cranker]

Originally Posted by Falcadore

Isn't that a rather niave and unhelpful statement considering that, as I am led to believe, that PIARC are as pro-CAMS as BAC/Jane is pro-AASA?

More than you could ever imagine, Falc, more than you could ever imagine.

Men of the 60's living in the delusionment of glory days of the past, and simply refusing to acknowledge any other opinion, alternative or point of view.


My secret squirrel has had his ear to the ground over the past fortnight, and he has whispered to me that following the massive costs involved with running the 2005 AMRS, under the CAMS banner, there is a real possibiblity it will come under the AASA banner for 2006.

The cost offset will be passed on and the competitors will still have the same flaggies, firies & medico's; as MOST of them are clever enought not to get involved in political bunfights.

And for those of you that will exclaim " but that series is run by PIARC members" well maybe some of them can see past the blinkers you are supplied with the day you join.

Oh and for the record, the CAMS catagory "944 Porsche" [german HQ if you ask me] have jumped to the dark side, by agreeing to run a full field, one hour event at the next VMRC at Winton........


The tide appears to be turning, albeit slowly.

Now if someone can only convince TC that he can make more profit by sacking Schenken & running under AASA how much better will V8 SC be.

NO better still, change to AASA & keep Schenken........

[silver 2]

Where does BAC come into all of this?

[Matthew Ronke]

Originally Posted by storyline

Winton Motor Raceway is the Victorian busniess name registered for the track (B1485892G) whereas Winton Motor Raceway Pty. Limited (ACN 094 491 264) is the company set up to run the track ( http://www.search.asic.gov.au/cgi-bi...=ACN&srchsrc=1 ). Set up in Sept 2000.

Interesting that ASIC doesn't show any annual return for this company since Feb 2003 - does this indicate that they haven't done their 2004 return ot that ASIC is extremely slow? Wouldn't have thought even ASIC were that slow.

Your obviously not a businessman Storyline. The last time anyone put a annual return into ASIC was for the 2002 FY. Replaced by Company Reviews, you will note the next company review is 15/9/2006.

Yes there seems as there a many big plans a foot next year for circuits running AASA events, just what they are, I guess we will have to wait and see.

[storyline]

Originally Posted by Uncle Cranker

And for those of you that will exclaim " but that series is run by PIARC members" well maybe some of them can see past the blinkers you are supplied with the day you join.

Actually only one PIARC member is involved with the AMRS and he has recently (within the past 3 months) resigned from PAIRC (well the club says he resigned but it appears he still hass access to the PIARC email address he had been provided as he has been seen, recently, to be sending out AMRS emails from that email). But I digress.

Whilst he was with PIARC it appears that what he was doing was rubbing a number of PIARC members up the wrong way and he wasn't particularly welcome at the two PIARC run events at Phillip Island recently. Some within PIARC have even gone to the extent of christening him mini-Bernie.

So this leaves only Garry Willmington and Rod Dale as the other two AMRS directors - you can work out who the third one is.

There are still numerous rumours going around though about the AMRS secretary. Whispers have it not all is well at Wakefield Park with meetings scheduled between the track owner and clerk of course over the antics (or more precisely the inability) of the secretary to perform her duties properly. Unfortunately this appears to be affecting not only Wakefield meetings but aso AMRS events (for instance - how can a CAMS run meeting still have a TBA listed against a major category at the conclusion of the race meeting - was this persons entry form even signed or, like the Development Series run at Wakefield, were vehicles allowed on the track without having even signed their documentation or without even having gone through scrutineering?).

The scuttlebut is that WP clerk of course Jones has basically given the track an ultimatum over the secretary.

[Uncle Cranker]

Originally Posted by Matthew Ronke

Not the case Silver 2. I was the one that registered the VMRC name. At the time I also tried to register Victorian State Race Series Inc as it had been de-registered for two years (unfortunately you have to wait 3 years to re-register). This was all done after the VSRS throw Winton out of the series and CAMS took the track licences off Calder Park so PVDA is right it was the VSRS decisions to only have Sandown and Phillip Island to run at.

Crash I think you have also hit the nail on the head, Its not just about money, CAMS are just so difficult to deal with.

Sorry Matthew, a point of order.

CAM$ are not difficult to deal with at all........


As long as your surname is Van Den Dungen, aka Duncan; Reid; Nelson; Vernall; Holloway; Taylor........... need I go on ?

[silver 2]

Uncle Cranker you continue the CAMS & associates personality bashing-- that is a whole range of innacuracies contained in those comments. It is totally unhelpfull to revisit that type of comment.They have all been made before and repeated many times before. How is that attitude going to contribute to solving a problem." Winton" is not blameless in all of this so to start the finger pointing again is unhelpfull.Recognizing that is the first step to a resolution. Rationalizing it for any longer is a continueing waste of everyones time.

[storyline]

This is exactly the point I was making yesterday - a few people on both sides just don't want to let things go away, do they?

Here's a radical proposal - get rid - on both sides - of these two groups of people and start afresh. Sure some knowledgeable people will be missed but life goes on - they could be hit by a bus any day and you would be in exactly the same situation.

Basically it boils down to this - stop the fighting and get sport back into motor sport. If you want to keep up these petty fights, take them somewhere else and stop ruining it for those that simply want to enjoy their motor sport.

[Uncle Cranker]

Originally Posted by silver 2

Uncle Cranker you continue the CAMS & associates personality bashing-- that is a whole range of innacuracies contained in those comments. It is totally unhelpfull to revisit that type of comment.They have all been made before and repeated many times before. How is that attitude going to contribute to solving a problem." Winton" is not blameless in all of this so to start the finger pointing again is unhelpfull.Recognizing that is the first step to a resolution. Rationalizing it for any longer is a continueing waste of everyones time.

Silver you are totally correct, and I apologise unreservedlly for being such an opinionated old fool who clearly holds terrible grudges against people that someone who allegedly lives on the Gold Coast, appears to have a lot of support for.



Or am I missing something here.


No I reckon the the only thing I must have missed was a statement similar to this....

"Matt, CAM$ are only difficult to deal with if your surname is Ronke"....

[Uncle Cranker]

Originally Posted by storyline

Here's a radical proposal - get rid - on both sides - of these two groups of people and start afresh. Sure some knowledgeable people will be missed but life goes on - they could be hit by a bus any day and you would be in exactly the same situation.

.

Storyline, as much as we both know that is a very good way to find a solution to this current impasse, we both know that the odds of that happening are longer than those of Anthony Tratt being V8 SC champion in 2006. [sorry Tratty, I had to say you, Tomas doesn't race anymore]

As for getting the 'Sport' back into motor-sport, well that turned hard left a few years back, when it became Motor-business, for most of the Stakeholders anyway.

The days of simple events are clearly long gone, but to see a course car drive more laps over the weekend, than the entry fee paying competitors, highlights too much bureaucracy, and a lack of understanding of who the most important groups are.

Not the senior marshalls, & C of C, the competitors,

remember them........

[Heather Wallace]

[QUOTE=silver 2]Discussions have been taking place have they not? Mathew? Heather? Why is Winton different to the position of others? There is no reason other than Wintons own resistance to the concept. To say a date was offered this year-- for the same day as the Bathurst 1000 . Even Mick was tongue in cheek with that.


Winton Motor Raceway submitted three weekend dates to the CAMS State Office for the running of the SRS event at Winton during the last half of this year.

As stated previously, we still have not received a response from CAMS or the SRS.

[storyline]

And this is precisely the attitude that is preventing these problems from being resolved. Hasn't it ever occurred to you that it is a small group of people on both sides who are consistently at each others throats and that these two groups are the ones preventing the problems from being amicably resolved?

I guess you haven't otherwise you would be trying to divorce yourself from your pro-Winton, pro-AASA links, taking a step back and trying to look at the bigger picture. (and before you take this personally, this applies equally to the pro-CAMS stable - step back and stop looking at the sport in terms of this fight, or that bone of contention).

[Matthew Ronke]

Originally Posted by Uncle Cranker

"Matt, CAM$ are only difficult to deal with if your surname is Ronke"....

I wouldn't say that is the case. 90% of people I talk to say they are to difficult to deal with. I have people flagging me down in the street to tell me how many problems the have with CAMS. It is just that a few have done something about it, Winton, Calder & QR.

There are exciting times ahead Uncle C and for the people that are uncertain about them they don't have to worry about it because there is also CAMS. Consumer choice is a wonderful concept.

[silver 2]

Uncle C , CAMS are difficult (impossible?) to deal with. Full Stop.Not just for some at Winton or Calder but generally ( universally?) . As long as those involved see a slight in every criticism no progress will be made. It does not matter what side(sic) you sit of this fence there are wrongs on both sides.There are people in both groups that want a solution. Not a capitulation a solution in the interests of motorsport.
The arguement with the State Series is not with CAMS but with SRS inc. Continually confusing the two or treating as the same is not correct.