What stock to build?

[Carlos]

Just starting to look at a new car build for stock hatch but hit a problem, I dont want to build a 205.
I have ruled out saxo, 205, 106, metro and nova (yes I know whats left) I have nothing against these cars but just want to try something new. This limits me to 1.4 16v
just wondering about trying to develope something like a focus / fabia 1.4 16v. I know these are fat and 1.4 would never get me to the front but does any one think a car like this could at least get me to second from last .
Have a laugh and call me insane, just want to try something new (or give me 1.6 16v with weight limits and lets open it up to loads of new cars )
ALL THOUGHTS WELCOME

[winnie]

Didn't Citroen build a Visa with same engine as 205 gti but a lot lighter.

[Carlos]

Yeah Citroen build a Visa gti, but these are very rare and parts would be very hard to come by hence thinking of focus/fabia. Thanks for thinking about it.
Any more thoughts anyone??????

[BRUMBRUM]

Originally posted by Carlos
Yeah Citroen build a Visa gti, but these are very rare and parts would be very hard to come by hence thinking of focus/fabia. Thanks for thinking about it.
Any more thoughts anyone??????

Why don't you build something that can be raced in the RSS you can build a modern car with 2.0 for the production divison 2 class.?? or what about a VW Lupo or Seat Arosa??

[Mr Atspeed JR]

look at 750 mc stock hatch. wot wins in that all the time??? by the way. vw lupo and seat arosa are the same car. "pizza car" same base different toppings!

[BertMk2]

What size engine does something like a Yaris come with? Or a Punto?

As you say a 1400 Focus would be too fat to be competitive so you really need to think small.

[Roundy Mooney]

A MG ZR has a 1.4 with 105 brake I think and would look the part but would be a expensive platform to start with.

The early polo gti were 1.4 16v and again had good power but was let down by being to heavy I think same engine is in some fabia.

As said before for different cars to come to the class then min weights must be brought in.

[moyzer]

Would a Polo G40 be eligable. I think that was a 1400 with a little supercharger slapped on the side. I suppose thats classed as forced induction though isn't it? Certainly be a quick one if it was allowed!!

[Cryos]

@Carlos

If you wanted to be different get a lupo like has already been sugjested but its probably a good bet, light and strong car, its only weekness would be that its a bit too electronic and left foot breaking is a no (anyone who has a vw car after 00 try left foot break and see what happens :P engine managment dont like it and kills your power and your electronicaly controlled throttle).

@ Bert

Yaris comes in 1.0 and 1.3 (the yaris t-sport comes with a 1.5 engine, and the Yaris TRD comes with a 1.5 Turbocharged monster :P)

Punto acctully would be quiet good, the 1400 engines come in different power outputs afaik.

you could also race a merc a class :P a140 :P

What about a ford puma or KA 1400?

[bigted]

What about a new C2?

[Roundy Mooney]

Bigted I think the Car has to be over 3 years old

[Pug620]

All these cars sound good but they are going to cost more than a saxo which is the best avalible donor car currently so until min weights or new regs are compiled the 205 will stay as the clubmans car.

Come on BRDA take notice.

Cheers

Marty

[Carlos]

Thought about the puma, would seem a quite nice are cheaper but assumed same coupe rule would apply.
as you say hawkesfire "Come on BRDA take notice"
min weights
16v
lets open the class up a bit
why not open it to coupe and saloon while your at it and realy open it up, even better 2.0 16v coupe, saloon and hatchbacks. Hot stocks, budget racing with more power and varied machinery, can this realy sound like a bad idea to anyone?
Thanks for all ideas, even considered a swift for a while.

[richorton]

Originally posted by Carlos
[B]Thought about the puma, would seem a quite nice are cheaper but assumed same coupe rule would apply.
as you say hawkesfire "Come on BRDA take notice"
min weights
16v
lets open the class up a bit
why not open it to coupe and saloon while your at it and realy open it up, even better 2.0 16v coupe, saloon and hatchbacks. Hot stocks, budget racing with more power and varied machinery, can this realy sound like a bad idea to anyone?
Thanks for all ideas, even considered a swift for a while. [/
B]

Hi carlos ever thought about a nissan micra 1.3 16v ,really do rev well and quiet quick to and there light and small.thinking about buildin something new my self next year but stopping in stock hatch class.

[429CJ]

Fiat Punto, Nissan Micra, Honda Civic.

[Rotweiler]

Some really good ideas, but depends on how deep your pockets are.
Take into account some of the spares you will need after the car is built. Compare some prices:
Eg. front bumper for a 205 from GSF £16.50 + VAT. Yet, for a Saxo £74 + VAT. So bear that in mind if you are thinking of something slightly more unusual...........
Also, if a weight limit does come in across the board (heard a rumour of 750kg) the 205 will probably still be the best choice. Saxo's weigh less than 700kg and the 205's can still beat them. Exception being Adrian but apart from his experience, and budget (don't forget) a lot of that can be put down to suspension + other things!!! (Mr Atspeed could tell you about that!)
Suspension plays a big part in the overall package of the car. Julian runs Reiger's - in the region of £2500.
We now come back to the weight issue for the "overall package".
Last time my car was weighed it was 753kg.
Julians (reportedly, didn't see it myself) came in at 704kg.
Adrians (reportedly again) came in at 675kg, and that's just a comparison of 3 cars.
Bottom line - to be competetive you need to spend the pennies ON THE RIGHT BITS.
I've even heard of Jnr engines changing hands for £5000!!!!

[Pug620]

The min weight sound a goo idea but i think it should be 800kg to give some other cars a chance .

Also is this weight with the driver as i would be in favor of this as i am heavy than most drivers

And dont say go on a Diet as i am 6'4

Cheers

Marty

[Roundy Mooney]

A single Min weight would not change anything.
There should be different weights for diferent cars if you want to make things fair.
Equal power to weight ratio would give every car a fairer chance at equal performance.
Look at the 750 mc Site they alredy have it done and works well.

750 Motor Club Stock Hatch Regs

[mr_atspeed]

if all the 1600 cars was the same weight...say..750 kilos, this would stop all the removing of underseal...cheating rollcages...machined wheel rims...and all the rest of the lightning that goes on. Make the shockers cost maximum of say..100 pounds each RRP..this formula is a budget class, and should be policed as such. If you outprice the lower classes, you remove the launch pad for younger drivers going onto bigger things. Every time you make the cars 500 pounds more expensive, thats 500pounds more a prospective driver has to find, on top of his stretched budget, to get him on the start line.
It is a fact, that drivers always want to go faster, fitting more bits to there cars. In my experience, it is normaly the drivers that just cant get to be fast enough, so, they think, if i put that jiggle pin fufu valve on my car, costing 500 pounds, I will be as quick as Mr. super star driver. But what this person doesnt realise, is that Mr. super star will also put on this jiggle pin fufu valve, and go as fast, and faster still, because he will use all of his jiggle pin fufu valve's extra power, and then, he will squeeze just that little bit extra from it, so, keep the formula as it is, we are boots and braces motor sport, good quality, good racing, good fella's, and lasses but s**t loads of skill and fun.
If it aint broke, dont fix it. just needs tidying a little, thats all.

[Carlos]

I have heard the 750 weight regs work well, or there is the winner ballast as in TC's but im not personnely a fan of that as it would probably mean more time between races.
thanks again for all thoughts. will most likely start building a focus 1.4 16v early next year. will gave me the most flexibilty for bigger engines in the future and parts are common but keep them thoughts coming as im not 100% yet.

[Pug620]

Mr atspeed

Your message makes lots of sense.

Come on BRDA get this sorted before its too late

2003 you were nearly turning drivers away in stockhatch
2004 grids are getting smaller
2005 ????

Cheers

Marty

[Pug620]

Hi

Can any one tell me if the 106 xsi 1.6 is allowed in stock hatch is a 8 valver or 16v and is it classed as aspecial?

Mr atspeed is yours a 1.6 0r 1.4???

Just thinking of building a new car and lookin for idea's any other cars that would be intreasting but cheap.

Cheers

Marty

[silver bullet]

Mr atspeed is right, we all spend what we can afford the bigger the wallet the more you spend on your car.
It's been mentioned on other threads about the performance equalising measures that are already built into the rules if the BRDA want to use them.
But as for new cars did anybody catch THE REVIVAL RALLY over the past few days all under 1400cc (or up to 2000 non turbo diesals) all with absoutly standard engines & gearboxes. All having lots of fun. You name it it was out there, 20 different maufacturers never mind models.
I was marshalling yesterday the peformance looked very equal.
So who's for building a Fabia, Sirion, Barina, Satria, Kelisa, Compact(Proton), Ibiza,.......... I could go on.
There were the more common ones as well nova, corsa, 106, 206, MG ZR, Focus, megane, micra,.........
I might even build somthing new myself for next year but I'll wait till the rules are sorted.

[mr_atspeed]

The 106XSI mark one..is either a 1360cc TU type engine 8 valve or a 1600 TU type engine 8 valve. both can come with Bosch engine managment, or the 1600 can come with magnetti marrelli engine managment.
The mark two 106, manufactured from about 1997? comes as a 16v 1600,this is called a GTI and is fitted with a Bosch engine managment system, or as a homoligated TU engined 8 valve this is known as a Rallye. This car is fitted with magnetti marrelli managment system as standard, Both the mark two cars mentioned are not elligble for rallycross stock hatch.
My car is a 1600 tu engined XSI.
This car is the biggest bhp in the series as STANDARD, please note the large letters, on the word standard!! MMmmmmmmmm

[richorton]

Just wondering why more people don't try using other cars like metro gti's and suzuki swifts (and before everyone jumps up i know that rees uses one)? Both in theory should be quick, small and light 16v motors.

I have only seen 1 metro in the stock hatch and i only recall seeing it race once at croft.

Is there reason why these cars are not popular, or is it just a case of people gravitating towards the old pugs because thats everyone else at the time seemed to use?

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