Dome LMP Discussion

[TF110]

If Toyota are pressed for cash (I doubt for 2013) Rebellion PAYING them to run a TS030 is somehow bad for Toyota's cash issue? That's basically what TMG does! It's a win win imo.

[Articus]

Rebellion does not have to cash to pay for a TS030 and all the development. Seems like Toyota spent less than Audi this year but still pretty sizeable amount in Privateer speak

[alexkiller8]

it seems that a lot of users here work in the managment of rebellion... how can you say that rebellion couldn't grid the car if they really want?
surely to grid a lola b12 is cheaper than grid a ts030, but who knows the real economic possibilities of the team?

[Lasse]

Originally Posted by Articus

Rebellion does not have to cash to pay for a TS030 and all the development. Seems like Toyota spent less than Audi this year but still pretty sizeable amount in Privateer speak

I might be wrong here but if (i hate if's but here goes) Toyota makes new tubs for next season, why not lease this years cars to Rebellion. Audi did this with Kolles and Peugeot with Oreca and Pescarolo. Why not Toyota?

Why should they pay for the develpment of the car? As long as Toyota is making money on the leasing deal, it is a win win fo Toyota (And Rebellion will have a good privateer car instead of buying two new cars for one season).

[alexkiller8]

infact, i can't understand why toyota shouldn't lease an old and not updated car to a private team that alreaby has a partnership with TMG! a team that can easily win the lmp1 trophy with the ts030 and for sure can't run as fast as the cars used by the work team.
BTW peugeot supplied a 908HDi to oreca, but a lot of peugeot personell and drivers assisted the team that received 2010 updates too. More than a private car, at least for the whole 2010 season, could be called the forth official car.

[The Badger]

Why couldnt Audi and Toyota lease cars to customers , without hybrid technology for the LMS .

Ban works outfits to the WEC .

[canam]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Why couldnt Audi and Toyota lease cars to customers , without hybrid technology for the LMS .

Ban works outfits to the WEC .

Prohibitively expensive for a privateer--as they would require pros all round.

Sponsorship in ACO reg racing is few and far between.

[alexkiller8]

in theory a manufacter can lease/send/support a private team with their cars! the only difference from last year regulamentation is that private teams can't score points for the manufacter's cup (last year oreca 908HDi scored point for oreca in lmp1 team champ and for peugeot in manufacter's cup).

[ger80]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Why couldnt Audi and Toyota lease cars to customers , without hybrid technology for the LMS .

Ban works outfits to the WEC .

LMS is LMP2 only?

[pedrocor]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Why couldnt Audi and Toyota lease cars to customers , without hybrid technology for the LMS .

Ban works outfits to the WEC .

Ban works outfits on WEC?

WEC was created to pressure from works teams, to works teams compete...
Doubts?
There are only manufacturers championships in WEC and only designated works cars can make points...

Some private teams are competing in WEC because the sponsors want to be were Audi and Toyota works teams are, not where Rebellion, Pescarolo, Oak are...

People seem not to realise how more expensive should be a lease of a pair of Toyota TS030, he could be talking about 3 ou 4 times more then buy a pair of Dome cars and run them.

As marketing strategy, it would make a lot more sense to lease TS030 to ALMS rather then WEC...

[Articus]

I believe the premise of the FIA WEC was that there would be two manufacturers competing. If it was only privateers in P1 they owuld have cancelled it in Typical FIA elitist fashion.

[Japanese Samurai]

According to Sportscar-racing.net,
Many offers are coming to Dome. However, Minoru Hayashi does not have the intention of manufacturing the new chassis of S102.5 in 2013.
That is because it does not become a profit even if it sells "several" new chassis.
And, He would like to make his car quick "by himself." He does not want the third party to develop S102.5. Therefore, probably, there is also no mass production of the monocoque of S102.5.
Probably the number of the next year's partners of Dome will be one.
http://www.sports-carracing.net/2012...tm#120708news1

[Victor_RO]

That sounds to me like an odd mentality to have when it comes to customer cars in sportscar racing... not very customer-friendly and not taking into account the customer teams' abilities and resources at all.

[Japanese Samurai]

For Dome (Minoru Hayashi), sportscar development is not business but a hobby.

[pedrocor]

Originally Posted by Articus

I believe the premise of the FIA WEC was that there would be two manufacturers competing. If it was only privateers in P1 they owuld have cancelled it in Typical FIA elitist fashion.

You are absolutely right.

When Toyota totalled their first TS030 and announced they would miss Spa, FIA even changed the rule to allow manufacturers to miss 2 rounds and still be eligible to be classified in World Championship, when initially presence in every round was mandatory. Note that they made this tweak only to LMP1, not GTE...
I guess they allowed 2 misses because they wanted to cover their @$$es in case Toyota decided to miss Barhain as well

[pedrocor]

Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai

According to Sportscar-racing.net,
Many offers are coming to Dome. However, Minoru Hayashi does not have the intention of manufacturing the new chassis of S102.5 in 2013.
That is because it does not become a profit even if it sells "several" new chassis.
And, He would like to make his car quick "by himself." He does not want the third party to develop S102.5. Therefore, probably, there is also no mass production of the monocoque of S102.5.
Probably the number of the next year's partners of Dome will be one.
http://www.sports-carracing.net/2012...tm#120708news1

Well, is thinking post 2013? Then the car will be obsolete, as new rules come in hand, notably making cars 10cm narrower. Maybe 2014 would be the year to S103, I don't know.
If Dome doesn't sell any car at all or keep putting money in Pescarolo, for sure they will lose a lot of it. Even not being a profitable operation (that ship sailed a long time ago), they would not loose so much money as not to sell.
And they are constantly mentioning Judd engine is 50hp short of the Toyota RV8KLM on the Rebellion cars, that's the chance to put the best engine available to privateers on their chassis.

But, I know, Hayashi-san was a very different perspective of motorsport and endurance...

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by pedrocor

When Toyota totalled their first TS030 and announced they would miss Spa, FIA even changed the rule to allow manufacturers to miss 2 rounds and still be eligible to be classified in World Championship, when initially presence in every round was mandatory.

No, the WEC sporting regulations were changed at the beginning of the year, way before Toyota destroyed the sole existing tub.

Originally two cars could score points for the manufacturer championship. However, the regulation was changed after Peugeot's withdrawal, such only one car can score points and two rounds can be dropped. This was done to lure Toyota in full WEC season commitment. It was clear from the start of the project that Toyota would miss Sebring.

[pedrocor]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

No, the WEC sporting regulations were changed at the beginning of the year, way before Toyota destroyed the sole existing tub.

Originally two cars could score points for the manufacturer championship. However, the regulation was changed after Peugeot's withdrawal, such only one car can score points and two rounds can be dropped. This was done to lure Toyota in full WEC season commitment. It was clear from the start of the project that Toyota would miss Sebring.

Peugeot announced whtidrawal at February, 2nd, same day Toyota appeared in official entry list of WEC.
Indeed they changed the rule 6 weeks before Toyota testing accident, not related, mainly because fear of a manufacturer missing Bahrain.
Same time, each manufacturer only mandated to present one car, this to meet Toyota limitations on a very young project as, without Peugeot, it will only be Audi running for the crown.

[alexkiller8]

peugeot annunced the retirment in late january, around 20/1/2012 if i remember well! since that day toyota intention was to join le mans and another pair of races (silverstone and fuji as rumored). Because of the critical situation, ACO convinced toyota to change their plans! so for the manufacter cup only the best placed car would gain points (to let have a fair competition because of toyota single entry) and knowing that toyota wouldn't however joint all the races, they reintroduced an old rule used in '70 in f1 (the best 6 results rule, only for manufacter's cup).

[vincegail]

Goethe pulled the plug:
http://www.les-news.net/Actualite/we...-jette-leponge
Pescarolo has no more money for the rest of the season, but is talking about running the Dome at Fuji, and running a LMP2. Not good at all.

[MitchZ06]

Why doesn't DOME chase a HPD engine? Really stick it to Toyota!

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by vincegail

Goethe pulled the plug:
http://www.les-news.net/Actualite/we...-jette-leponge
Pescarolo has no more money for the rest of the season, but is talking about running the Dome at Fuji, and running a LMP2. Not good at all.

Look , the way I see it is , Henri's playing ground is in Europe . He cant nor should he be expected to battle against the might of Audi and Toyota , so a much more even playing field for him would be P2 in the ELMS if its survives ..... and whats wrong with that , would cost an awful lot less that galavanting around the world after the WEC which he cant afford to do anyway .

Maybe he could run the P1 effort for Oak in WEC .

Henri has to keep his team outta the courts again because of finance , I suggest he sits down and has a deep think about what he can afford to run , cuz if this team goes down a 2nd time , I doubt very much there will be anybody so generous to bail him out again .

[Japanese Samurai]

http://www.dome.co.jp/labbbs/dmbbs.c...=detail&page=0

*Minoru Hayashi says that Dome is negotiating with three teams about future on official BBS of Dome.
However, it is unknown whether tie-up is realized.
Although the design of S102.5 is old, it is because a budget will not balance if a new car is developed.

[Puzzle]

can't thank you japanese samurai for giving us an english run down of that news piece (amongst others) if we only had google translate to go on we would be thinking that dome had set themselves the task of competing for less than audi budgets for hospitality (or is that true and audi just spends heaps on hospitality). I do love the DOME but i also wish that they'd get their story straight are they or are they not going places with this car.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Puzzle

I do love the DOME but i also wish that they'd get their story straight are they or are they not going places with this car.

They probably don't know themselves .

They won't race unless its a proper team, who won't embarrass them.