ALMS/LMS cars at Daytona!

[alwayswatching]

It would be interesting to see who now has ownership. I believe Stallings does now, not sure who else??

Really, I wonder why he'd want to get involved in management of the series and also why would the Frances want anyone else on board.........can't be for money you'd assume?

[Bob Riebe]

[QUOTE=Mirage M6] Daytona![/B]---involves discussing THE FRANCE FAMILY AND EVERYTHING THEY CONTROL! PERIOD

[TheSuicideKing]

[quote=Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by TheSuicideKing

If Brian France cuts off the Finances GARRA is gone.
Do a little reading on the France motorsports empire. It is not pretty, but very effective in gaining its goals.
Dictators are odd that way.

So you think Brian France tells Jim France, Lisa France, and before his death, his father what to do?

The lengths some people will go to hope for the ruin of Grand-Am is quite pathetic.

Originally Posted by alwayswatching

Maybe you might want to ask some of the actual Nascar drivers if they share your opinion..............

And drivers are always the most level-headed, well-informed bunch. lol

[Bob Riebe]

[QUOTE=TheSuicideKing]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

So you think Brian France tells Jim France, Lisa France, and before his death, his father what to do?

The lengths some people will go to hope for the ruin of Grand-Am is quite pathetic.



And drivers are always the most level-headed, well-informed bunch. lol

Brian France is the one they said took over from his dad, but IF you prefer to list the whole France family fine, it still makes me right.

[alwayswatching]

And drivers are always the most level-headed, well-informed bunch. lol

Maybe not, but they are the ones on track, they are the ones on the receiving end of any arbitrary organizer *spirit of the games* decisions. I seem to recall Mr. Home Depot's driver being very vocal about the Nascar www of wrestling stance.

And I am not inventing this am I.

It seems the people who are most vocal in their declaration that ALMS is wanting the end of GA, are GA defenders themselves, and not the fans of both. Each series has its own followers and each do so for their own reasons. Look how Nascar with GA has repeatedly tried to sway Nascar fans to watch GA............without success. I've been at Daytona when the Paul Revere has been run...............packed stands for the Nascar qualifying................within half an hour or so of the GA race started, most had drifted away.

What does this prove? Each series no matter what that may be, has its followers...........some may cross over to other series, many will not.

So accept that GA runs a manipulated, lower tech series than does ALMS.........and be happy!

[GroupC4ever]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

OOOOOFFFFFFFF TOOOOPPPPPIIIICCCCCC! WOOO!

Perhaps yet another close is in order? Shame, because it would be fun to fantasize about LMP's on the high banks at Daytona. It would be better if we could leave the politics at the gate.

Chris

Chris,

That was my intent when I asked the question. It was really stupid of me to do so as I completely ignored the France family involvements. I sure didn't want to steer trouble.

I was really surprised to hear that the IMSA weren't allow to run a 24 hours race if they wanted to keep the Le Mans name in the series title. I may be light years behind you guys regarding your knowledge of endurance racing and I apologize for that. I guess I'm learning more than provide any useful questions.

Daniel

[Zytek_Fan]

IMSA could probably reach an agreement with the ACO to run their own 24 hour race, maybe it could be IMSA would have to accept entries from the LMS too...

[Fogelhund]

If for some reason the Daytona 24 became available for IMSA/ALMS, I am sure that the ACO would allow them to run the event, even though we all know it isn't going to happen.

[Zytek_Fan]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

If for some reason the Daytona 24 became available for IMSA/ALMS, I am sure that the ACO would allow them to run the event, even though we all know it isn't going to happen.

It would be quite the odd series of events to have the Daytona 24 available for ALMS...

[Bob Riebe]

If the IMSA was fortunate and got Daytona back on its schedule, road racing would regain a LARGE portion of that which it lost in the past fifteen years.

What the show consisted of (rule) would become far more important, as failure would not be an option.

Sadly it would still not be a miracle cure unless the person running, at least the Daytona race had the showmanship that John Bishop used to have.

bob

[Danske]

If there hadn't been a history of a 24-hour race at Daytona before Grand-Am then I imagine people would be even more derisive of the race today, and one would be burned at the stake for suggesting that ALMS cars sully themselves by setting wheel on a roval.

No, I don't think that observation is going off-topic, but putting a different perspective on the original question. So there's a series putting on a 24-hour race in the US, but absent its history what is the attraction in having ACO cars participate in it exactly?

[bil588]

Originally Posted by TheSuicideKing

Do they write the rules to a certain extent to assert "fair and equal" competition and under some guises, cost containment? Yes.

Second Chance

(similar to NASCAR's lucky dog rule http://nascar.about.com/b/2006/07/31...-explained.htm)

Grand-Am will be initiating the Second Chance (yet to be sponsored) rule wherein the highest placed lapped car at the time of the wave by at the end of a full course caution will be waved by the overall race leader and get a lap back. This will be used in both the Rolex Series and the KONI Challenge Series races.

http://www.grand-am.com/CONTENT/Docs...tin_200703.pdf

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Danske

If there hadn't been a history of a 24-hour race at Daytona before Grand-Am then I imagine people would be even more derisive of the race today, and one would be burned at the stake for suggesting that ALMS cars sully themselves by setting wheel on a roval.

No, I don't think that observation is going off-topic, but putting a different perspective on the original question. So there's a series putting on a 24-hour race in the US, but absent its history what is the attraction in having ACO cars participate in it exactly?

To be honest, nothing. FWIW, the rest of your points are probably accurate as well.

[Danske]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

To be honest, nothing. FWIW, the rest of your points are probably accurate as well.

Well, to continue the dissection, I would suppose what we've got here is just a case of Le Mans envy then.

[TheSuicideKing]

Originally Posted by alwayswatching

It seems the people who are most vocal in their declaration that ALMS is wanting the end of GA, are GA defenders themselves, and not the fans of both.

Then why do ALMS fans, who consistently bash GA, outnumber GA "defenders" at a staggering rate on this board and the ALMS board?

[JAG]

Originally Posted by TheSuicideKing

Then why do ALMS fans, who consistently bash GA, outnumber GA "defenders" at a staggering rate on this board and the ALMS board?

At one stage GA was a major threat to the ALMS, it could have put them out of business.

Rather than encouraging the best, inovative, technology, in the mold of IMSA GTP, top level US sportscar racing would have been dumbed down, glorified spec racing.

That period has past, ALMS is stronger than ever, and GA is a good (racing wise) national series that has a solid market share. IMO, the more road racing in the US the better, hopefully it strengthens the viability of the sport as a whole.

That being said, I do resent the fact Daytona and Watkins Glen are now no go's for the ALMS. It's tradegy these great circuits don't have ALMS cars gracing them.

When I see pictures of the Jaguar XJR-14 or Nissan GTP's battling at Watkins Glen, it makes me think what could have been!

[TWK]

Originally Posted by Zytek_Fan

IMSA could probably reach an agreement with the ACO...

I doubt very much if they could. I believe the prohibition is specifically spelled out in their agreement.

The ACO has an interest in maintaining the uniqueness of Le Mans as the only 24 hour race run to its rules.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by TWK

I doubt very much if they could. I believe the prohibition is specifically spelled out in their agreement.

The ACO has an interest in maintaining the uniqueness of Le Mans as the only 24 hour race run to its rules.

It makes one wonder; when road racing was humming right along, the IMSA through Daytona especially, in conjunction with NASCAR, and the LeMans organizers, created special classes, or at least special openings, to encourage across the Atlantic journeys.

Now that road racing is in a flat-line funk, being spitefull is the order of the day.

I guess power does corrupt and absolute power does corrupt absolutely.
Bob

[alwayswatching]

Rather than encouraging the best, inovative, technology, in the mold of IMSA GTP, top level US sportscar racing would have been dumbed down, glorified spec racing.

That period has past, ALMS is stronger than ever, and GA is a good (racing wise) national series that has a solid market share. IMO, the more road racing in the US the better, hopefully it strengthens the viability of the sport as a whole.

Exactly. ALMS represents a high tech series with plenty of scope for innovation.

GA represents a low tech series with any scope for innovation quickly scuppered by GA.

That said, both series has their fanbase who are exactly that because it's what they like..............simple to understand and not a lot of point either side trying to drag it into a *we are better than you* contest..........the attendance facts speak for themselves.

[jimclark]

I always promis myself not to post in these kinds of threads but I still hope to reach someone. Each series has it's merits (I prefer ALMS) and I enjoy both for what they offer. Simple as that. If you like one and not the other, fine. Why threads started for entirely different reasons turn to comparison matches escapes me. I don't think one series hurts the other. Rather, I think they help each other as newbies to road racing (sportscars in particular), turned on by whichever of the two, usually are happy to discover that they can see more of it when they find out about the other series...and that the differences of the two series offers some variety to boot... 'Been the case with many newbies to the sport that I've met anyhow. Me, I've been a fan since the 60s and don't feel the need to shoot opposing series down...I either enjoy them or ignore...again, that simple.

[cptkablamo]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Now that road racing is in a flat-line funk, being spitefull is the order of the day.

I guess power does corrupt and absolute power does corrupt absolutely.
Bob

I think that over the past 20 years, being spiteful has become the norm in motorsport, particularly in the US (OWR) and that does seep its way into other forms of motorsport.

I'm with jimclark on this one. Lets use them to build each other up, rather than tear them down.

I think that the LMP cars would be great to see at Daytona but from the TV I have seen of it, the DP cars put on a pretty good show too...

[dxk1]

Originally Posted by jimclark

I always promis myself not to post in these kinds of threads but I still hope to reach someone. Each series has it's merits (I prefer ALMS) and I enjoy both for what they offer. Simple as that. If you like one and not the other, fine. Why threads started for entirely different reasons turn to comparison matches escapes me. I don't think one series hurts the other. Rather, I think they help each other as newbies to road racing (sportscars in particular), turned on by whichever of the two, usually are happy to discover that they can see more of it when they find out about the other series...and that the differences of the two series offers some variety to boot... 'Been the case with many newbies to the sport that I've met anyhow. Me, I've been a fan since the 60s and don't feel the need to shoot opposing series down...I either enjoy them or ignore...again, that simple.

Well said! Both series have their good points and should be appreciated for that. When Grand Am was first started (arount 1999) they allowed LMP1, GT1 etc. because they needed the entries. Once the DP cars became reliable and multiplied, it wasn't necessary to include LM Class cars as the entry lists were full without them.

DK

[thebear]

Ignore this - it was a mistake

[thebear]

Originally Posted by dxk1

Well said! Both series have their good points and should be appreciated for that. When Grand Am was first started (arount 1999) they allowed LMP1, GT1 etc. because they needed the entries. Once the DP cars became reliable and multiplied, it wasn't necessary to include LM Class cars as the entry lists were full without them.

DK

Not exactly. You are thinking of "World Sports Cars" (Ferrari 333sp, etc) that have evolved into the ALMS & LMP categories.

G-A began in 2002 with DPs. The rules were to be on a five year cycle which has just concluded. The only changes being entry of different engine manufacturers. There are updated chassis designs this year and these chassis combined with the '08 spec tire by Pirelli are what have contributed to many cars testing this past weekend and producing lap time more than one second faster than the '07 pole time. Some leeway has also been granted in the car's appearance/aero but it is not always obvious.

[Nedley Mandingo]

Originally Posted by thebear

Not exactly. You are thinking of "World Sports Cars" (Ferrari 333sp, etc) that have evolved into the ALMS & LMP categories.

G-A began in 2002 with DPs.

GA began the DP era in 2003 (not 2002), but Grand Am existed for several years before that, with prototype rules fairly close to that of the FIA SCC. If you'll look at results, you'll see some of the same teams/cars running GA and ALMS in the 1999-2002 era.