Who Will Be in Toyota-Atlantic in 2005?

[Mike.ca]

I suppose I could have (maybe should have) posted this in the National & International Single Seaters forum, but I thought I'd get more of a response here, and it is a Champ Car feeder series.
Has anyone heard anything about who will be in Toyota-Atlantic this year? This is the quietest offseason I can remember, and I have quite a long memory. It seems that some of the drivers I thought would do T-A this year are planning to do, or looking at, Pro Mazda.

[Mosport67]

Lets hope it is more than last season. It doesn't look good right how.

[StickShift]

Which teams are left? Sierra-Sierra, Pacific Coast, and Rahal have left.

[Mosport67]

Are there any teams confirmed for a full season?

[Martinmechanix]

From what I can read on the Toyota Atlantic web site, there is only one driver confirmed. It is Fernando Rees and he signed with Brooks Associates Racing. They also tested several drivers. So they may feild their 2 cars. Another team did test drivers, Polestars. Right now these two teams seems the only active ones...in the C1 class. You may probably add Jensen Motorsport too. By looking the team listing on the web site, it does not look good. Most of the top team withdraw. My feelings is the field will be small.

[brightline]

I never really understood why more Champ Car owners don't field TA cars like NASCAR does with Busch Series cars. There has got to be a lot of old TA equipment out there cheap, and if the fields are small throw CHamp Car drivers in the cars. THat would be the ulitmate test for all the champ car hopefuls.

It would also be valuable test time for the younger champ car drivers who don't know the tracks that well.

Also, if you throw the same livery on the champ cars as the TA cars when champ car drivers are racing it's added value for the sponsors.

[Mike.ca]

That's a good idea, brightline, for a prosperous series. There was a time when some of the CART teams ran Indylights cars. But even the top Champ Car teams are looking for pay drivers now. That being the case, I don't see where they would get the money to run junior teams. It's a shame. Champ Car is a North American series. If it is to rebuild, it will have to bring in young drivers who appeal to North American fans. While Champ Car fans are a pretty open minded bunch, the fact remains that American fans want to see American drivers, Canadians want to see Canadians, and Mexicans want to cheer for Mexicans. Champ Car needs a North American ladder system that works. The problem is that the costs of racing have gone way up, while the return on investment for the teams' sponsors has not. It's a problem throughout the sport. I'm not sure what the solution is.

[Mosport67]

The young guns aren't getting chances because they haven't got enough $ for a Champ Car ride. Many graduates find places elsewhere in motorsport. Not really encouraging to young drivers considering an Atlantic program.

[Snrub]

Good point, Atlantics will always suffer at least as much as Champ Car. If PT and CDM don't have sponsorship what chance does "some kid" have?

Atlantic's benifits to drivers has been that there is a preceived strength of field (so winning is an indication of talent) and that it's the official CC ladder series. It costs a LOT to compete too. 2005 looks like it's going to be a year to write off for Atlantics because the field will probably be a tad weak, there's little chance anyone will advance to CC and there are other series with MUCH lower costs.

Given the current environment Atlantics needs to be overhauled so that it's much cheaper to run. $250k is what it costs to run Star Mazda, so if Atlantics cost a similar amount, the potential for a CC future would draw lots of drivers and ensure a skilled talent pool of drivers for CC to pull from.

[Kicking-back]

Maybe there won't be an Atlantic series at all this season?

With the IPS doing some road courses, they both seem to be competing for the same drivers and budgets.

If we can't have a merger between ChampCar and IRL maybe a merger between IPS and Atlantic to form one feeder series would at least be a step forward.

[StickShift]

I would mothball the series, and bring it back once they have a new and cheaper Formula. Champ Car could ditch the expensive Toyota engines, and see if they could get a cheaper solution from Cosworth.

---

Were all of the Atlantics races shown on TV last year? I remember watching Long Beach, but that's it.

[Fogelhund]

I've been told that Star Mazda will cost about 250k-400k this year. Atlantics about a mil. for a competitive ride, Rusport spent more. This came from a Mazda driver, who was also looking at Atlantics.

F Bimmer seems unlikely to be on the OWRS card anymore.

[Omega99]

I know jj has explained it before, but I forget what he said...

Is there really a competitive gap between Star Mazda and Toyota Atlantics? Would it be possible to just pick up Star Mazda as the feeder instead. After all, it solves the cost problems that Toyota Atlantics seems to have.

[Fogelhund]

Star Mazda is currently sanctioned by IMSA, and is quite happy with the relationship. Given where F Bimmer is headed, and both Trans Am, and F Atlantic suffering under OWRS, there is no reason for Star Mazda to move over. The Three amigos have their hands full keeping "Champcars" going at the moment.

[The Snout]

When KK and GF bought Cosworth I think I remember them saying how they could/would build cheap Cosworths for the Atlantics series looking forward. The general feeling I got is they are going to overhaul it and make it really cheap to run. Also remember something (from a friend in the industry) about Panoz having been approached about coming up with a cheap spec chassis and supplying it. FWIW

[Fogelhund]

That would be great Snout. It's obviously become very expensive to run, and is floundering. A great shame given its wonderful history and place in North American Racing.

[Martinmechanix]

The Snout what you are talking about looks like the Pro Mazda. What I mean is the Pro Mazda chassis his made by G-Force, chassis division of Panoz. (note: if you go on the Pro Mazda's web site and then down the page you will see the link to the Elan Motorsports (near the forum link). You will notice the URL address has a section where you can read "Panoz-tour". If you do remember well, when I did some researchs about Elan Motorsports I ended up to G-Force). With the relation between Mazda and Ford...you know where I am going.

[Mosport67]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

A great shame given its wonderful history and place in North American Racing.

So true. I remember when Atlantics were really something. The Atlantic race at Trois Riveres was really special.

Some real greats raced in the series. At least two world champions. Keke and JV. Not sure how many Indy champs.

[The Snout]

I don't know what sort of lead in is required to supply Atlantics with Cosworth power if they went that way. However it's an obvious option. And with all these manufacturer feeder series going around these days, like Formuila BMW, if one or two of them fail then Cosworth can step in if they wanted, buy the engines, and maintain them themselves without having to going through the process of design to begin with. Of course there's the IRL Cosworth engines that will be available for next year which they could use, not sure how cheap they are to maintain though.

But CCWS have to decide what their intentions are for Atlantics, cause I barely see them going through '06, let alone '07 without a major overhaul. So they better present the new formula for them some time this year.

[The Snout]

Originally Posted by Martinmechanix

The Snout what you are talking about looks like the Pro Mazda. What I mean is the Pro Mazda chassis his made by G-Force, chassis division of Panoz. (note: if you go on the Pro Mazda's web site and then down the page you will see the link to the Elan Motorsports (near the forum link). You will notice the URL address has a section where you can read "Panoz-tour". If you do remember well, when I did some researchs about Elan Motorsports I ended up to G-Force). With the relation between Mazda and Ford...you know where I am going.

I'd say it very possible that KK and gang through their business dealings with Ford have had a look at Pro Mazda and could have enquired where did Ford/Mazda get such a cheap chassis from and have been introduced to Panoz that way. (Not that introductions in the industry probably would have been required) But yeah, having seen what sort of bang for their buck Mazda is getting with Panoz, then CCWS are investigating possibly sourcing the Atlantic chassis from them. They're cheap, they're quality, it's what we need, asap.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Mosport67

So true. I remember when Atlantics were really something. The Atlantic race at Trois Riveres was really special.

Some real greats raced in the series. At least two world champions. Keke and JV. Not sure how many Indy champs.

Hunt raced at three creeks as well.

[Dov]

This article is a week old, but it's bang on with what we are discussing right now in this thread. From CCWS.com:

Jon Fogarty is in the American LeMans series, Ryan Dalziel is in limbo and Danica Patrick is in the Indy Racing League. The common thread is that none of the top trio in last year's Toyota Atlantic championship are where they wanted to be in 2005 -- in a Champ Car.

And it's a trend that needs to be turned around if the ladder system for Open Wheel Racing Series is going to survive and thrive.

In fact, Robin Miller is a little behind in his news because Pacific Coast Motorsports and it's drivers Ryan Dalziel and Alex Figge have moved to the ALMS for 2005. Well, at least the CCWS still has Nelson Philippe, Rodolpho Lavin and Roberto Gonzalez.

P.S. I don't believe that Andrew Ranger will be back in Formula Atlantics this season as i've heard some very strong rumours lately that he will join one of the Formula Renault series. *sigh*

[Dov]

Here's a list of past Formula Atlantic Champions. LINK

[JohnSSC]

While I have posted previously on what the ideal ladder series would result in for the Champion - namely a season-long ride at the next highest level - this would only work in a "healthy" headline series environment.

Because of the sponsor-strength in NASCAR, teams long have been able to field "minor league" Teams in Busch or the Truck Series for their up and coming talent.

CC and IRL have no such sponsor strength. In fact, the weakness of each Series' "Ladder" structure is directly indicative of the weakness of the "Big Show" itself. Talk here of improving the Formula for the junior series is not necessarily bad, but while the patient is in Intensive Care it is probably not a good idea to plan a trip mountain-climbing.

[Snrub]

When reading Dov's list of Atlantics champions, I nearly fell out of my chair when I read this one: Hiro Matsush!tsa 1989 Pacific division.

Edit: Autosensor, grrr!