Brands HSCC

[simon drabble]

Sadly due to family committments I couldnt go, I presume I missed another great Super Prix? You certainly had contrasting weather and all that incurs, Zeferally has already told me that the squirty end of the saloons got a little physical (lets hope this is not a new trend as I am racing a tin top again!)

[Expat]

Sorry to raise this but did anyone happen to see me hit the pit wall - hard - with my BT 21 (#72)in practice yesterday? Normally I wouldn't humiliate myself like this in a public forum, but it was (going to be) my first race and the disappointment/frustration of having to withdraw is so huge (I qualified fifth in my class in any event) that if I can pick up any clues at all as to what happened and learn from the mistakes I've made I'd be very appreciative.

[kickstart]

Expat have you tried asking to see if anyone in your practise was fitted with a camera - I appreciate it is a bit of a longshot but as they say the camera never lies.
Hope you are okay and hope the car is repairable.
Assuming there is no video maybe with the help of people on this forum we can try and work out the likely cause.
Whereabouts did you hit the pit wall - eg near to paddock and did you hit it with the front rear or side of your car.

[Expat]

Thanks Kickstart for your reply and suggestions.

I was on the last lap of practice and had been watching my step as it was my first time in the wet. I was nearly at the end of Clark curve and on the main straight. (see diagram/illustration attached)

I changed up probably into 4th and was accelerating fairly hard when the rear end snapped around to my left with no warning at all, sending the car into a violent spin and nose first into the concrete pit wall BLAM (re-living that part is making me consider giving this up). The car then spun around again and came to rest by the pit wall.

I'm sure it's my error of course. When I started learning/testing two years ago I spun the car a few times - each time on the exit of a right hander - and fortuneately went off onto grass on the inside. Chalked it up to simply applying too much throttle too early in the exit. Still perplexed why this would happen with the car almost pointing straight up the track.

[kickstart]

Expat, I have seen the accident that you describe at Brands a number of times over the years - my guesses would be, in order of most likely :
1. You put a rear wheel onto the grass at the exit of Clark
2. Oil had gone down
3. You had a deflating tyre
4. You had a suspension failure

Don't let it put you off, serious crashes are relatively rare - perhaps fit a camera to your car so that you can watch each practise/race to see your mistakes and hopefully learn from them. I have become a real convert to cameras after I had a Race TV one fitted for the Brands Race at the end of June. I captured two other racers both spinning out and crashing and it was easy to see on the video what had caused the crash - both put a rear wheel on the grass.

[Expat]

Hmmm. Some things to think about. Think I was in the middle of the track when it let go.

[diz]

Originally posted by Expat
Think I was in the middle of the track when it let go.

Originally posted by Expat
I changed up probably into 4th

A bit of uncertainty in both these comments.
Hope it doesn't prove too off putting, or too expensive.
Have you considered a spot of personal tuition from an ARDS Instructor? If you are 'self taught' you could be making the same fundamental errors, without being aware of them. Just a thought. Good luck.

[Peter Mallett]

Its a normal event for a rear wheel drive car. Change up before the car is completely settled and the rear wheels tend to overtake the front!

Try in a FWD car and it understeers.

Clarke curve isn't easy. It requires a good balanced throttle all the way through otherwise the really good guys can be seen grabbing bucketfuls of opposite lock. This is because you've just come down a slight dip from Clearways and the suspension is on the rebound plus trying to cope with the curve.

Can I suggest that next time, you soften the left rear damper to cope with this corner and you get the nose pointing more or less ahead before attacking the loud peddle.

FWIW, I had the same last year at Lodge Corner at Oulton. Wet track a bit too eager and whump! I'm sliding backwards along the armco on the inside of the circuit.

Don't give up. If you don't spin off occaisionally you aren't trying.

[Expat]

I have had ARDS on track dual instruction and since getting my license a few years ago have done about 12 incident-free hours testing mostly at Brands (long and short) and also at Goodwood, Snetterton and Sliverstone. I am the first to say I could do with some more tuition/coaching but hard to see how to do that with a single seater.

[Expat]

All good advice - thanks guys.

[FFMan]

I suspect the post above is right, and that a major factor was that you are just cresting the dip from the last corner. I was there in an FF and it was a bit treacherous there.

Did you soften up the car for the wet to give more feel and warning of impending spins ?

[Peter Mallett]

Welcome to the forum FFMan.

[Expat]

Did you soften up the car for the wet to give more feel and warning of impending spins ?

Funny that you mention that. Peter Denty made the same suggestion and explained to me how to do it beforehand. If I had not run out of time I would have changed the front roll bar.

I am on my own and as it was to be my fist race I ended up having to race against the clock to deal with things in addition to the car prep stuff I'm used to for testing - e.g. scrutineers (didn't know I had to bring a screw driver - that took more time; hiring a transponder; new driver's briefing which conflicted with 10:30 scrutineers slot and had to be done in tower; change race numbers, etc).

I arrived a little after 9am for a 10:30 scrutiny slot and 12:30 practice and thought that would leave sufficient time, but it clearly was not. Guess I should consider having some help if I don't decide to give it up.

[Peter Mallett]

Hmm,

A few things there then.

Point one, get there early, sign on and get scrutineered don't wait for the allotted time.

Also new driver briefings happen more than once so find out all the times. As long as you attend before practicing you're ok.

Dunno what the screwdriver was for but I suspect you had something loose that needed tightening. Usually a Scrute will point it out and you agree to put it right. (Used to happen with my battery all the time).

Never let yourself get pressurised into taking to the track in a car that isn't set up to your liking or to suit the conditions. You can always ask to do your three laps out of session.

Don't give up.

[Tim Falce]

Originally posted by Expat


I am on my own and as it was to be my fist race I ended up having to race against the clock to deal with things in addition to the car prep stuff I'm used to for testing - e.g. scrutineers (didn't know I had to bring a screw driver - that took more time; hiring a transponder; new driver's briefing which conflicted with 10:30 scrutineers slot and had to be done in tower; change race numbers, etc).

I arrived a little after 9am for a 10:30 scrutiny slot and 12:30 practice and thought that would leave sufficient time, but it clearly was not. Guess I should consider having some help if I don't decide to give it up.

Definately not a good idea to be on your own for a first race, or any race for that matter. There is a lot going on and even more to take in and worry about. Try and find an experienced racer or helper who can guide you through the next couple of outings.
It sounds like your accident could have been due to changing up at the wrong time while the car wasn't stable or simply down to some oil on the track. Don't give up and good luck.

[Tim Falce]

.....and there's me giving good advice and I will be on my own at Brands on Saturday

[PaulSands]

I have put some images from Sunday's Historic Sportscar's up on my site
http://paulsands.org/brands180704/sports/sports.html
Sorry if it's a little Marcos heavy but they do draw my eye a little

[Ted Walker]

I was on the pit wall timing and you hit the wall just in front of me. Someone beside said they thought that a cooling pipe came off and you spun on your own water.If you need parts let me know.

[simon drabble]

great photos Paul
is that the Ginetta 25 URO whioch has Graham hill connections and is going to be auctioned or has it been and this was the new owner?
Also who won the scrap in one of your last photo;s of Sean Walker's 26R and the Elva behind. On paper the Elva should have but Sean Walker is a very fast driver...

[PaulSands]

Sean got him at the death hence the jubilant arm being raised...it was a great scrap...there was lot of it going on Sunday

Couldn't offer you any info on the Ginetta I'm afraid.

[simon drabble]

what was the BRDC race like?

[PaulSands]

I dipped out after the Group C's I'm afraid as I wasn't well

[simon drabble]

sorry to hear that and I can understand Gp C does have a bigger pull than BRDC!!

[PaulSands]

not at all Simon it was purely due to timing..the races went sportscars, ff, group C at which point I couldnt carry on (you can see the gradual deterioration in the photo quality due to my inability to focus my eyes )

[zefarelly]

there was a little Ginetta G4R . . .it is up for auction . . . . .the steering broke and it took a knock in practice.

expat . . . .I had a kitty litter moment through clearways in my last lap of qualifying . . .wet wet wet . . .slip slip slip, I just ran out of road, no real damage done though fortunately