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Old 12 Nov 2023, 17:55 (Ref:4185606)   #1
delta
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HGV renewal for all you over 70’s

Reason for this post . When you fill in the D4 form there is a section that ask if you have ever had a stressed ECG. Well those racers like me that have international licence will tell the doc “ yes”. All well and good until DVLA see this and the alarm bells ring . It’s taken nearly 5 months for me to finally get my HGV and motor bike licence renewed . None of this would of been possible without the help of Dr Mark Green of motor racing medics . He sent DVLA a letter and copy of my last stressed ECG. Licence arrived in the post yesterday .
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Old 12 Nov 2023, 18:28 (Ref:4185612)   #2
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I knew that there was a good reason why I let my Class1 lapse a few years ago.
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Old 12 Nov 2023, 19:27 (Ref:4185618)   #3
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I knew that there was a good reason why I let my Class1 lapse a few years ago.
Yes , I did the same .To much paperwork , Doctors certificates and the constant ongoing CPC courses .
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Old 12 Nov 2023, 19:48 (Ref:4185624)   #4
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Yup me too. It wasn't the medical at the time but the CPD and general hassle.

So the DVLA assume that if you've had a Stress ECG that it's because you're a health risk? Whoops!

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Old 12 Nov 2023, 20:36 (Ref:4185634)   #5
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Yes Max . Should of lied and said no to having stressed ECG.
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Old 12 Nov 2023, 21:14 (Ref:4185639)   #6
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Yes , I did the same .To much paperwork , Doctors certificates and the constant ongoing CPC courses .

Considering that I was eligible for my licence without even having to take a test, yes the current licencing criteria is a nightmare; I got mine, initially through grand=fathering rights, with no questions asked back in the 70s. The roadway to our yard was extremely narrow, and delivery drivers often got their artics stuck, sometimes worse because they tried to reverse up it even though we could easily get 6 or more turning around the yard simultaneously.

It was always left to me to rescue the situation, and so I used to have to drive these 40 tonners almost every day, and the DVLA, or whoever it was back then, were happy to take my word that I was an experienced HGV trucker.

Last edited by Mike Harte; 12 Nov 2023 at 21:21.
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Old 12 Nov 2023, 23:55 (Ref:4185650)   #7
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........ . None of this would of been possible without the help of Dr Mark Green of motor racing medics . He sent DVLA a letter and copy of my last stressed ECG. Licence arrived in the post yesterday .
I have my medical with Mark on Monday so I will pass on your thanks personally.
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Old 13 Nov 2023, 02:11 (Ref:4185655)   #8
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I couldn't even be bothered to reclaim my 7.5 tonne licence.....DVLA took it off me when I had my brain op 15 years ago, and as I'd just packed up the scrapyard and only used a 3.5 tonne beavertail it didn't seem worth the hassle and the medical fees.


But as per earlier discussions - DVLA are rule-bound bureaucrats who don't even understand their own rules, so keep them at arms lenght as much as possible!
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Old 13 Nov 2023, 11:32 (Ref:4185671)   #9
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I couldn't even be bothered to reclaim my 7.5 tonne licence.....DVLA took it off me when I had my brain op 15 years ago, and as I'd just packed up the scrapyard and only used a 3.5 tonne beavertail it didn't seem worth the hassle and the medical fees.


But as per earlier discussions - DVLA are rule-bound bureaucrats who don't even understand their own rules, so keep them at arms lenght as much as possible!
There is a huge shortage of HGV drivers in the country .
https://motortransport.co.uk/blog/20...earch-reveals/
Leading to supply difficulties and increased prices for everybody .
A lot of it comes from stupid civil servants who invent new rules to try to keep themselves busy .
After the Covid lockdowns a lot of older drivers gave up because of all of the new rules and there is now something like 50,000 drivers short of what is needed .
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Old 13 Nov 2023, 13:47 (Ref:4185687)   #10
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There is a huge shortage of HGV drivers in the country .
https://motortransport.co.uk/blog/20...earch-reveals/
Leading to supply difficulties and increased prices for everybody .
A lot of it comes from stupid civil servants who invent new rules to try to keep themselves busy .
After the Covid lockdowns a lot of older drivers gave up because of all of the new rules and there is now something like 50,000 drivers short of what is needed .
I just think they dont want over 65 year old's driving HGV. The only good thing that has come out of all this is that my license did expire in March and now its November. Next year i will go to Motor Racing Medics for my HGV medical.
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Old 13 Nov 2023, 13:57 (Ref:4185690)   #11
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I just think they dont want over 65 year old's driving HGV. The only good thing that has come out of all this is that my license did expire in March and now its November. Next year i will go to Motor Racing Medics for my HGV medical.
My daughter works in logistics for a large distribution company and she said that before lockdown , they had a lot of over 65s driving for them .
But afterwards a lot of them had given up . Possibly from all of the extra hassles being put on them .
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Old 13 Nov 2023, 14:19 (Ref:4185692)   #12
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I get the impression that there is an unspoken policy to dissuade anyone over 65, and certainly anyone over 70, from driving anything.

Quite how that will work with the parallel policy of increasing the retirement age to around 75 in the coming decade ('cos they can't afford the pensions and need the taxation from employment) is very unclear to me.

But I suppose there are some young genius's in the uncivil service who have come up with schemes that easily bamboozle our elected representatives.

Come to think of there are some school kids who seem to have the same bamboozling competency.
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Old 13 Nov 2023, 14:41 (Ref:4185700)   #13
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I wouldn't be surprised if those who are in charge (really?) think that the possible advent of driverless vehicles, including HGVs, and drones will be able to satisfy all our needs in the future.

As to state pensions, and I know that I have mentioned it before, but it has been a well known fact, since at least the end of the 80s, that the government wouldn't be able to afford them. Very shortly there will be only about 2 1/2 people in work to help subsidise every person of retirement age. To carry on as we are now would require taxes to rise substantially, and that's not a vote winner.
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Old 13 Nov 2023, 17:18 (Ref:4185719)   #14
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There is talk of medical examinations for drivers aged 70+ being introduced over here.
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Old 13 Nov 2023, 17:30 (Ref:4185723)   #15
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Not too late! They should add psychiatric examination too. When you see some seniors totally unable to walk and/or find their way in the street then driving just because they still have a licence, you wonder what our politicians are thinking about. Should start at 60 or 65.
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Old 13 Nov 2023, 17:56 (Ref:4185725)   #16
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Not too late! They should add psychiatric examination too. When you see some seniors totally unable to walk and/or find their way in the street then driving just because they still have a licence, you wonder what our politicians are thinking about. Should start at 60 or 65.
Ah yes, but that's just Parisiens!
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Old 13 Nov 2023, 18:14 (Ref:4185733)   #17
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Yes they are gaga! As to racers above '70, I remember a recent GT winner at LM was c 73. So, theyre's hope for many!
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Old 13 Nov 2023, 19:16 (Ref:4185744)   #18
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Article in the Times today about the EU trying to get a uniform policy on drivers over 70 having to have regular medicals or assessments - apparently a wide range of rules across the bloc at present. Germany are strongly opposed to any test and restrictions, it seems, which doesn't seem very Germanic - though I suppose reflects their limitless autobahns, some of which still exist.


As one in my 70s, I can't really argue against some form of check, although I'd maybe keep it to an eyesight test, perhaps basic BP and heartrate assessment.
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Old 13 Nov 2023, 19:59 (Ref:4185749)   #19
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As to Germany may be its because they have no serious data about seniors responsible for more accidents. We have the same thing in France.



As you, Richard, I've nothing against any test, driving included and think it could start at 65 or less. I do remember we had this kind of discussion on here with Mike B, theme was "how do you say Dad/Mum don't you think you should stop driving" or the like.
Because of speed regulation enforcements and fuel cost), over the years I reduced my speed on the road and keep my bike at 110 HP.
ATM when applying for an itn driver licence we're just encouraged to have an ECG every two years (no problem for me, I've one each year).
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Old 13 Nov 2023, 20:41 (Ref:4185753)   #20
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I do remember we had this kind of discussion on here with Mike B, theme was "how do you say Dad/Mum don't you think you should stop driving" or the like.

I had this very discussion with my father when he was 93, and it didn't go at all well; it did feel wrong having to tell my father what to do. And, although up to that point he had caused a couple of fender benders, he still believed that his reaction speed was as good as when he was a young man, it really wasn't the case. Worse still, his doctor believed that he was and had been suffering from a number of mini strokes, which caused him to fall, and he being unable to remember why he was lying on the ground or floor.

In the end, I had to ask his GP to step in, and she told him in no uncertain terms that he was to stop driving instantly, or she would advise the DVLA to revoke his licence. At this point, I was visiting him every day, and for a few days he refused to speak to me, which in some respects was a blessing because that meant that he didn't phone me at about 3 or 4 in the morning to remind me about something that he had already mentioned at least a half a dozen times in the last few days.
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Old 13 Nov 2023, 21:54 (Ref:4185758)   #21
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My <80 (at the time) y.o. mother turned to me belligerently and said "I'm going to give up driving Maxwell," expecting a fight (you can always tell when I'm in trouble when she calls me that, especially considering my name is Maximilian ).

Totally took the wind out of her sails when I said "great idea!" TBH she's never looked back. Old person's bus pass, been all over the county.
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Old 13 Nov 2023, 23:04 (Ref:4185761)   #22
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Yeah, we had a similar situation with my mother-in-law, who was, I guess, in her mid-eighties at the time. We'd got her a bright green Nissan Micra a few years earlier in the hope that, A) she'd find it easy to manage, being just about the easiest of cars to drive and, B) that at least the loud colour meant others might see her coming!

It wasn't too long before there was barely a straight panel on it - she was a woeful driver even in her youth. Years earlier, when collecting her husband from the hospital after a heart attack, she nearly put him straight back in there with a second one when her foot slipped off the clutch at the car park exit as she was trying to put the coins in the slot - took out the barrier and the car's windscreen in the process!

Anyway, we were wondering how to broach the subject of her driving (in)ability, and how to suggest that perhaps she should consider giving up, when the matter was taken out of our hands as she smacked into the back of a van which, apparently, she didn't see in time as she rounded a turning into a side road (the van was legally parked!). Fortunately, the insurance wrote the car off and we were just keeping our fingers crossed that she didn't ask me to find her another car. Luckily - and maybe the penny had dropped - she never did ask, and we never said any more about it. She never drove again, which was surely a blessing for all other road users!
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Old 14 Nov 2023, 09:09 (Ref:4185801)   #23
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Yes not always simple to findthe right words at the right moment. As to Mum, who taught me how to drive on the road (from twelve…), I went for an example. Her cars having been always in perfect condition (Alfas, lancias, Coopers and stuff), eventually some dents appeared over the years if not worse aka bent wings.

Just asked her to explain this and notice that the current car was not perfectly parked as was previously the case. She didn'y like it at all but after few months she gave her last car to her daughter in law and sent her driving licence to the Police!
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Old 14 Nov 2023, 09:52 (Ref:4185809)   #24
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Michele's father will be 93 next month & he still drives most days perfectly well - doesn't even need glasses.

I think some members of the family were hoping that his Laguna would fail the CT a couple of months ago & that would be that but it sailed through with no problems, so he's good for two more years!
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Old 14 Nov 2023, 17:22 (Ref:4185869)   #25
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Not wearing glasses helps sometimes. I don't think a Laguna can be the best you can expect from a car.
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