Merger Imminent?

[mountainstar]

David Phillips mirrors much of what I have said about a rushed deal:

Have a read:

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...mes-a-tsunami/

[cptkablamo]

Whatever you think of this - the cat is further out of the bag than it has ever been before - there is no putting the cat back in - at least not without breaking a lot of things.
Whenever this meger happened, people were going to get burnt - it was always going to be the case - I think Racer said it at the beginning of the year that if it happened many people were going to lose business, lose money. But is a bit of short term pain better the potential longer term gains?

Whether this thing happens tomorrow or in 2009, people will still get burnt. Conquest and Coyne will still have cars with a lot of life left in them, Haas will still have a lot of spares, these things would still be true - but not to the extent they are now. And what if the merger happens in 2009, are we going to have ever dwindling fields in 2008? What advantage does that give anyone?

As for Champ Car Atlantic - there is no reason why they still can't function. Tak themselves onto ALMS, or IRL/CCWS or Grand Am or something - they can still function - create new deals. Wouldn't it be great to have a pathway for both the IPS and CCA Champs to whatever Open Wheel category exists?

Once merged, a real apprasial of what they have can take place, and things can start to be built - mend bridges with Panoz, Mazda and all the suppliers - create something great. There were years that Reynard and Lola, Swift etc sold 20-30 CART cars a year and still made money, I know that situation is different but surely a merger won't spell doom and gloom for all the other suppliers around.

I saw somthing like this coming back round Assen. I was told from some of my peeps to expect something big in Feb - and what are we in now??? Have no idea if this is what was expected but this is what we got

But whatever happens from here, things have changed and 2008 will be different to what anyone expected.

[icemachine]

With a rush together and cancelation of so much, you're talking of making a lot of amends, many with people who will not be willing.

[indycool]

Someone's always going to lose in a bankruptcy or merger or melding of a couple racing series or whatever you want to call this. How many people have lost already, before these talks even got started, including fans who haven't gotten a full one series show of Indy cars for 12 years? CART shareholders? Promoters like the guys in Vegas and San Jose? Sponsors who've gotten minimal ROI?

Sure, things like CC owing $300,000 to the company which fixed all their fuel cells a year ago, that company loses. It isn't the ONLY loss.

The sooner it comes together, the SPORT wins. And if the SPORT wins, then it can stabilize and grow from there and get more money back into it.

[Amar7605]

I agree with indycool. Sooner or later something has to give. If it is better for the sport to have Champ Car fold, then that's what it'll have to take.

It really pains me to say that because I am a die-hard Champ Car fan and have supported it through its darkest times like so many of us.

Having said that, I am not giving up hope yet!

[madman16]

Reading an article in Auto Action talking to Will Power, he sounds like he is already preparing himself to run in IRL/Merged, whatever you want to call it. He mentioned that he'll probably be fighting for a top 10 when he was hoping to be a chance for CC crown.

Maybe all these articles being printed and causing probable trouble with venues is what KK was talking about when he said things have hit a road block now the media is involved.

I think they might have been trying to keep it a secret and just make one announcement, oh well people talk

[climb]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

...
I think they are going to make a huge mess out of this by rushing it so quick. Rather than putting in place a proper structure and schedule for 2009, it's going to be a mess and lawsuits are apparently on deck already. I think people are foolishly underestimating that you only get one shot to do this right and bring the public back.

Could be a good point, but if most of the few current CC teams decide to switch to IRL, does it have a sense to keep CC alive? With only the series owners teams?

Originally Posted by mountainstar

...

In terms of the irl prevailing I think you're dead wrong. It's a hollow victory. There is almost nothing left to fight over. Almost every fan is gone. Almost every sponsor is gone. Every car manufacturer.

No, only you for now. Identifying yourself with the whole AOWR world is a bit too much IMO

Originally Posted by mountainstar

...
Many venues as well. What did you win? If the irl was so great it wouldn't need anything champcar has right?

Provided I personally win nothing, since i'm just a fan from Italy, IRL is doesn't need anything CC has, it's just a pity not to save two or three venues which are particularly successful (or, to better say, the only successful ones from the CC schedule)

Originally Posted by mountainstar

...
I read an interesting blog last night:

... I am afraid that what we will see on opening day at Indianapolis will be the racing equivalent of the period between WWI and WWII. A cease fire, a truce, perhaps even a treaty, but a situation so hateful and full of resentment that only a fool would believe the war is over.

Dunno who wrote that masterpiece of historic knowledge; imo comparing AOWR troubles with WWI and WWII is just the joke of the year.
Particularly that reference to "resentment": who should feel resentment since it's all about businessmen doing business? All the original Cart leaders have gone, or switched to IRL years ago.
The most CC die-hard team boss, Paul Newman is delighted by this "merge", then this hypothesis is just wishful thinking from someone who have a personal problem with TG

[Fogelhund]

As it turns out, Forsythe is also telling his team that the will continue in Champcar, to prepare for Laguna. This guy was going to field one car, then didn't pay attention last season, then was going to dump Tracy, but now is going to go it alone to run Champcar? This is truly bizarre.

[orrmate]

Forsythe seems really bitter about the whole thing. It doesn't matter, really, Walker and PKV are set to switch regardless, which means Kalkhoven will leave the board of Directors, and I'm pretty sure NHL will follow suit. If Forsythe wants to try and carry on with whats left then he's free to, but I can't really see the sense in it.

[Go_For_Pole]

Originally Posted by indycool

The sooner it comes together, the SPORT wins. And if the SPORT wins, then it can stabilize and grow from there and get more money back into it.

Please, with TG management record there is little if any hope. ALMS will thrive though.

[indycool]

mountainstar, in any situation like this, some individuals gain and some lose. But in this case, IMO, the SPORT wins if the series are melded together.

Talk about losses. How about the promoters at San Jose and Las Vegas? CART shareholders? Promoter from China is suing CC. RM reports that company that repaired all the DP-01 fuel cells is suing CC for $300,000 it hasn't been paid. At least some of that is irretrievable for the SPORT.

If/when the two series come together in some form, only THEN can the SPORT stop fighting itself and not fight, but COMPETE with other sports for the sports entertainment dollar and attention.

Cease fire between the World Wars? Baloney. Hasn't been any problem for those competitors who switched from CART to IRL in the past and shouldn't be now. The CW types might keep some sort of war going in cyberspace and they're loud and nasty, but they're minimal in number compared to the big picture.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by orrmate

Forsythe seems really bitter about the whole thing.

We are a bit low on info to be making these types of suggestions, especially with all the misinformation coming out in the last week.

I could understand Forsythe being bitter about the way the whole thing has gone down since the media has got involved, especially if it has eroded bargaining power for the company.

Originally Posted by orrmate

If Forsythe wants to try and carry on with whats left then he's free to, but I can't really see the sense in it.

Nor can I. I think surely he knows it as well. There is a meeting with all the ChampCar teams today which should provide the last peace of the puzzle.

[climb]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

...There is a meeting with all the ChampCar teams today which should provide the last peace of the puzzle.

That's what I call an interesting hint!
Please keep us updated if you can

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by climb

No, only you for now. Identifying yourself with the whole AOWR world is a bit too much IMO

What that tells me is that you were nowhere around 13-14 years ago when Indycar shared the throne with Nascar.

Today almost every american equates Racing=Nascar. It didn't used to be that way.

[indycool]

The "throne" is very mythical. What "throne?" King of Racing in the U.S.? Where's the trophy for that?

Most entities in sports realize that there is a broad scope of things vying for the sports entertainment dollar. What happens to Long Beach's TV ratings when it's against Tiger Woods and the Masters? Why did the IRL escape football, the MLB playoffs and World Series by ending its season in September?

[johntt]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

What that tells me is that you were nowhere around 13-14 years ago when Indycar shared the throne with Nascar.

Today almost every american equates Racing=Nascar. It didn't used to be that way.

True, If AOWR had stayed united then Nascar would not be nearly as popular as it is now, and as Gordon Kirby wrote last year, people like Gordon, Johnson and Stewart would be in open-wheel rather than stock cars.

[icemachine]

True, If AOWR had stayed united then Nascar would not be nearly as popular as it is now, and as Gordon Kirby wrote last year, people like Gordon, Johnson and Stewart would be in open-wheel rather than stock cars.

Thats a lot of assumptions

[BootsOntheSide]

Jeff Gordon had already gone to NASCAR before the IRL started - indeed, the lack of drives for young American talents such as Jeff was cited by Tony George as a reason for change. Tony Stewart could have stepped up from IRL to ChampCar (as it unquestionably was at the time), or raced in IndyLights/Atlantics instead of IRL. NASCAR was already improving its relative position long before the split.

[kootje]

at http://www.champcarworld.net/pages/news.php?id=4993 maybe old news.....

Grtz Kootje

[icemachine]

A good summary of the rumours to date, Kootje

[f1manoz]

Hard to know what is going on really. I'm surprised Forsythe wants to stick with ChampCar if a merger is really on the cards considering KK seems to be all for it now.

[kootje]

I'm not surprised that Forsythe wants to go on with Champcar he made a lot of investments in Champcar!
And i will not be suprised if Stoddart stepin with some financial backing......

Grtz Kootje

[indycool]

Stoddart stepping in sounds like a stretch because I 'spect he'd tag along with his countryman.

But that's the first I've heard that Ziggy Harcus is gone, too.

[Tony Clifton]

CCWS is absolutely dead if it tries to go on it's own this season. There would only be about 12 to 14 per grid, which would be a joke.
IMO if CCWS goes forward the 2008 on it's own it will be lucky to last 5 events.

The writing on the wall is clear here.
CCWS needs to merge or plain and simple, it dies on it's own.

I have a feeling that the merger announcement is coming very soon.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by indycool

The "throne" is very mythical. What "throne?" King of Racing in the U.S.? Where's the trophy for that?

Sounds like you're over analyzing it.

I'll spell it out for you again since it flew over your head the first time.

Back before the split, if you mentioned racing to any average american, many still thought Racing=Indycar. Drivers were still household names. Almost every american knew of Andretti, Unser, Fittipaldi, etc. They may not have known much about them but they could at least associate the name to what sport they were in.

Ask any average american to name a current open wheel driver today. You might have better luck in indy or cleveland but most of america couldn't.

Today if mention racing to any american outside of indy, they automatically assume Racing=Nascar.

My point is that we have a gigantic mountain to climb to get back to where we were. That's why I'm not for a half assed slapped together merger. It doesn't do anyone any favors. Especially considering how ugly and horrible sounding the irl cars are. That wont be drawing in the punters.