Toyota/Rebellion Racing - Le Mans/ILMC/LMS - 2011 (merged) - Page 7

gwyllion · 15 Jun 2010, 05:59 (Ref:2712372)

Quote:

Originally Posted by skycafe

So, if you are Toyota, having built your image on great engineering in road cars, but now taking hits in every form of media (in some cases unwarranted in comparison to other makers) which is harming your enviable market share big time

Toyota has the status of technology leader in hybrid systems. The 2011 LMP1 rules focus quite a bit on hybrid systems. What better place for Toyota to demonstrate their know how?

Quote:

Originally Posted by skycafe

do you at a board meeting dicsuss going to LeMans, where you have not enjoyed success, throwing tons of money at it?

Toyota had no problem throwing money at an unsuccessful F1 project.

**skycafe** · 15 Jun 2010, 12:23 (Ref:2712534)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Toyota has the status of technology leader in hybrid systems. The 2011 LMP1 rules focus quite a bit on hybrid systems. What better place for Toyota to demonstrate their know how?

Toyota had no problem throwing money at an unsuccessful F1 project.

Nurburgring 24. Set some record of least fuel use with race prepped Prius.

Get Rally to open their regs, or do some exhibition class. Rally Raid.

The F1 project really didn't produce and had to try to patience of the accountants and the board, so they have learned a harsh lesson there too.

gwyllion · 15 Jun 2010, 12:34 (Ref:2712542)

The Nurburgring 24 hours is predominantly important for the German market. They already won the Tokachi 24 hours with a hybrid Supra, but that victory did not get much exposure. If you want to showcase your technology in endurance racing, Le Mans is the best choice.

JAG · 15 Jun 2010, 13:40 (Ref:2712585)

Quote:

Originally Posted by skycafe

Nurburgring 24. Set some record of least fuel use with race prepped Prius.

Get Rally to open their regs, or do some exhibition class. Rally Raid.

The F1 project really didn't produce and had to try to patience of the accountants and the board, so they have learned a harsh lesson there too.

The Toyota GT-ONE and F1 program were both ultimately failures yet the GT-ONE has gone down as one of the coolest cars in history with the Gran Turismo crowd.

Sportscar racing and rallying seem to be two disciplines were cars can be cool and improve a maunfactuers image even if they aren't successful.

CTD · 15 Jun 2010, 14:12 (Ref:2712598)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAG

The Toyota GT-ONE and F1 program were both ultimately failures yet the GT-ONE has gone down as one of the coolest cars in history with the Gran Turismo crowd.

Sportscar racing and rallying seem to be two disciplines were cars can be cool and improve a maunfactuers image even if they aren't successful.

And to that PSA is a great example! (with the 206/ and Xsara/C4 and the 908, even tough the 206 and Xsara/C4 was/is successful)

**FIRE** · 15 Jun 2010, 17:20 (Ref:2712680)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motominded

What is TTE new name?

I also want to know what will happen to the Cologne facility as it would be a shame if Toyota got rid of it.

Toyota ran a WRC and Le Mans project from their in the 90's and i'm sure with the F1 development that place is one of the best in the world.

Toyota Motorsport GmbH

http://www.toyota-motorsport.com

**skycafe** · 15 Jun 2010, 23:46 (Ref:2712897)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwyllion

The Nurburgring 24 hours is predominantly important for the German market. They already won the Tokachi 24 hours with a hybrid Supra, but that victory did not get much exposure. If you want to showcase your technology in endurance racing, Le Mans is the best choice.

No disagrement from me at all.

LeMans does cost a boat load of money. It is also a huge public place to fail, which Toyota can not afford right now. I don't think the money to do LeMans right now is really a problem, it is the possibility of failure.

Now, if they the only factory team in some new class that has a speed advantage like the diesels have enjoyed, then maybe they would feel comfortable--but would anyone on this forum be that happy if Toyota came in as some sort of overdog in a class of their own?

You could do print and television buy and photos, video and verbiage on a N24 special class victory 'beats expensive sports sedans and sport cars that fell by the wayside on the Green Hell, and only used 25 gallons of fuel,' with a team of tarted up racerized Prius, keep some engineers involved on the cutting edge of your product line, prove concepts. Does it compare to overall at LeMans in a prototype? No, of course not. But even doing that would require a lot of media buy to promote in US.

Toyota is trying to recover their name now, and that means being very methodical at each step to rebuild a foundation and grow from there. I do not think they can consider LeMans for several years at this point.

But, I may be completly wrong.

**Adam43** · 7 Jul 2010, 18:52 (Ref:2723165)

There is a poll in rally and rallycross asking what area of motorsport Toyota should compete in:
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123353

**Bentley03** · 8 Jul 2010, 10:44 (Ref:2723437)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam43

There is a poll in rally and rallycross asking what area of motorsport Toyota should compete in:
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123353

Thanks for the link.........pinned my colours!

Interesting link in that thread to job ad posted in Autosport. "The successful applicants will have sound experience in top-level motorsport (such as Formula 1, Le Mans or IndyCar).........". The advertised vacancies are a CFD Engineer, Wind Tunnel Design Engineer and Wind Tunnel Test Engineer.

Doesn't suggest a GT or Rally based programme to me, but also suggests they're not very far down the line with whatever they have in mind.

CTD · 8 Jul 2010, 21:09 (Ref:2723724)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bentley03

Thanks for the link.........pinned my colours!

Interesting link in that thread to job ad posted in Autosport. "The successful applicants will have sound experience in top-level motorsport (such as Formula 1, Le Mans or IndyCar).........". The advertised vacancies are a CFD Engineer, Wind Tunnel Design Engineer and Wind Tunnel Test Engineer.

Doesn't suggest a GT or Rally based programme to me, but also suggests they're not very far down the line with whatever they have in mind.

But they do have some thing in line!

.
But unfortunately it sounds like Dome will not be utilized in the new project.

tux · 9 Jul 2010, 06:44 (Ref:2723861)

Maybe i am reading too much into this but Toyota Motorsport are advertising for CFD and Wind Tunnel engineers.

Victor_RO · 9 Jul 2010, 06:48 (Ref:2723862)

Could well be for a LMP project, could also be something for a new car that fits the new combined DTM/SuperGT regulations and might be built and designed in Europe with the DTM primarily in mind. Who knows?

Lola T70 · 9 Jul 2010, 14:13 (Ref:2724050)

LMP IMO. DTM is for German manufacturers, TV, crowds, races are all German and it costs a LMP budget.

gustavobamba · 9 Aug 2010, 11:51 (Ref:2741845)

According to the magazine PHOTOBYTE, Toyota will go to WRC instead of Le Mans.

They will announced inn next week.

http://autosport.aeiou.pt/gen.pl?p=s....stories/88711

gwyllion · 9 Aug 2010, 13:42 (Ref:2741901)

Judging from the picture they will use the Auris hatchback.

I Rosputnik · 9 Aug 2010, 19:44 (Ref:2742107)

Well that killed any hope of Toyota being in the WTCC.

dxk1 · 9 Aug 2010, 21:42 (Ref:2742163)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gustavobamba

According to the magazine PHOTOBYTE, Toyota will go to WRC instead of Le Mans.

They will announced inn next week.

http://autosport.aeiou.pt/gen.pl?p=s....stories/88711

Does the WRC get much coverage world wide? Will they get more exposure in this series than in either ALMS or LMS? I was just wondering. Is this a business decision or just a racing series where they think they can compete?

DK

JAG · 9 Aug 2010, 21:50 (Ref:2742166)

The WRC is right up there with Le Mans, Indy 500, F1 and NASCAR at the very top of the motorsport pile.

It's had a couple of very poor years but at it's best is immense.

Last time around Toyota ran WRC and Le Mans programs so I wouldn't be suprised if this is an option once the WRC is up and running.

Speed-King · 9 Aug 2010, 21:53 (Ref:2742168)

WRC is a bit strange - it's not that all that many people are actually following it on TV, but it gets huge crowds at the events (200k +) and then it also has a certain can't-escape-it-factor, i.e. it gets coverage in a lot of different media and you stumble across it all the time.

gwyllion · 9 Aug 2010, 23:21 (Ref:2742207)

There seems to be a renewed interest in WRC from car manufacturers: Citroen, Ford, Mini and now Toyota. VW is also said to be interested in building a car according to new rules (1600 turbo).

rich07 · 10 Aug 2010, 00:36 (Ref:2742224)

I think the new rules have been designed partly to encourage new manufacturers and it appears to be working-Mini and Toyota seem to have joined the fray. VW-what about Seat or Skoda?

I'd rather see Toyota in sportscars though

cptkablamo · 10 Aug 2010, 00:47 (Ref:2742225)

WRC done well can be of huge benefit to a manufacturer - see Subaru or the benefit that the Peugeot 206 gained from WRC. The WRC has gone through troughs before and come out the other side and if they get rid of the mismanagement and stop emasculating the sport it might return to the glory days. So this doesn't surprise me and as rally comes in as a second motorsport love after sportscar, this possibility does excite me.

CTD · 10 Aug 2010, 13:06 (Ref:2742444)

What you also must remember is that there can be made money from the S1600 rules.
Toyota can build a S1600 car, run it in WRC under a factory banner, and at the same time sell a bunch of them to the national championships and the IRC!. Kinda what Porsche did/does in GT2.

I think/hope that when a S1600 program is up and running, they will start to look at other racing forms (WTCC very likely as they also switches to S1600 soon)

Japanese Samurai · 10 Aug 2010, 13:37 (Ref:2742457)

This news source magazine is a magazine named "Best car" of Japan.
Certainly, there was an article that Toyota participated in WRC.
Additionally, there was an article that Toyota would participate in LMS or DTM by the Lexus brand.

gwyllion · 10 Aug 2010, 13:43 (Ref:2742460)

@CTD: you are misusing the term S1600, which refers to FWD cars with a NA 1.6 4 cilinder engine (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_1600) used in e.g. JWRC.

I doubt that the manufacturers can recover the huge investment needed to build a championship winning rally car by selling the car to customers.

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