F1 Reliability

[Wrex]

Has anyone noticed how many cars are finishing a grand prix these days?

I don't have the stats (maybe someone with forix access can enlighten us) but the cars seem to be bullet proof this year.

Impressive as this is, it's even more impressive when you think the cars are'nt touched now between qualifying and the race.

Or is it just me?

[marcus]

yep , its been pretty increddible the reliability of the cars this year , I guess the tems and engine makers knew they needed cars to last longer because of the parc ferme situation.
its good to see so many cars running at the end usually.

[rpolinski]

Just goes to prove the old adage, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

[ralf fan]

we were all expecting cars to be very unreliable at the start of the year due to parc ferme rules but the teams have done a super job

[paulzinho]

Yep bodes well for next year too with the long life engine rule.

[jetsetter]

The reliability in F1 this year has been unbelievable, certainly a credit to all the teams.

[Gore]

I remember thinking when the long-life engine rule was announced that I'm not sure I didn't prefer the days where reliability played a role in Grands Prix. The purist in me likes the fact that the fastest guys now always win and take the points, but with relative levels of competitiveness pretty much constant between races nowadays, part of me misses the freak results we used to get: like Barbazza 5th at Imola in '93, Lehto 3rd at the same circuit in '91, Panis and Morbidelli joining Hill on the podium in Australia '94. Gave the little guys a bit more reason to turn up for the races.

Or should I just go watch NASCAR instead? (I would if it was shown on UK TV!)

[f1manoz]

Although one must marvel at the reliability of everyone nowadays, I must concur with Gore's thought above about the freak results.

[Wrex]

Agreed Gore. While I hate seeing championships decided by reliabilty, I do miss those freak individual race results. You never knew either, you could have a leader out in front in a rather broing race but you had to keep watching. Now, after the first pit stops, its 95% a foregone conclusion.

Tell me Brazil was'nt interesting with a few guys out, or even when Michael blew his tyre in the last race.

I would (dare I say it) love to see more of it.

[Gore]

Races of attrition may not be motor racing at its purest, but the majority of the Grands Prix in the past ten years haven't been good demonstrations of motor racing. As Wrex says, the possibility of unreliability held the interest on the more tedius Sunday afternoons we saw prior to this season (just to show that I'm a hypocrite I don't like the artificial randomzing device of one-lap fueled-up qualifying, but have to admit it's made the races more entertaining).

On the other hand, as a Barrichello fan, maybe I'd be happier with super-reliable GP machinery if Ferrari were able to extend the idea to both cars

[R]

Originally posted by Gore
As Wrex says, the possibility of unreliability held the interest on the more tedius Sunday afternoons we saw prior to this season

Prior to this season?!? I'm sure you mean prior to last season... There wasn't a more boring season than last season, when TGF's bulletproof Ferrari finished on the podium in every single race...

At least this season, we've had 7 different race winners. Some of the other teams have (almost) caught up with Ferrari's (at least on TGF's car) superior reliability from last year, true, but I can tell you, as a Montoya fan, the German GP was far from boring, given the countless times something has gone wrong while he's been in the lead...

[Gore]

Originally posted by R
as a Montoya fan, the German GP was far from boring, given the countless times something has gone wrong while he's been in the lead...

We Barrichello fans (both of us) know all about that! Hungary '95 still hurts (not a win, but a podium from 12th on the grid would have been pretty spectacular!)

I was only referring to seasons prior to this year's as examples of regularly soporific races, not necessarily examples of interest being created by retirements. Like you say, the problem was exacerbated in 2002 by the bullet-proof Ferraris.

I agree that this season has been different--I knew things had changed when the Spanish Grand Prix of all races was good entertainment!

[DNQ]

It's amazing to see the cars are so reliable these days, but about there being no shock results these days, I concur with those who say they'd like to see the element of surprise return...

Races with high-attrition are nearly always famous, I mean who can forget, in recent history alone, Australia 2002, Brazil 2003, Germany 2003 even, and perhaps earlier on, Monaco 1996, Australia 1995 for eg.

[Snrub]

It seems like traditionally engines were pushed to their limits in the persuit of winning. I think it was felt that the only way to win the championship was to win races. Instead of a 4th place they'd take a DNF. If you look at the old point structure 10 6 4 3 2 1 you can see that 1 win was better than two 3rds or four 4ths.

I think Ferrari realized that even if the car was slower than the competition, MS was still likely to get atleast a 2nd place. Last year they were so much better than the competition that it didn't matter if they were substantially slower than they could have been in a different year.

[Smokey 6 litre]

Originally posted by Gore
Or should I just go watch NASCAR instead? (I would if it was shown on UK TV!)

late night Channel 5,
i watched 12 laps and fell asleep,
useful for an insomniac like me

[Yoong Montoya]

Originally posted by R
Prior to this season?!? I'm sure you mean prior to last season... There wasn't a more boring season than last season, when TGF's bulletproof Ferrari finished on the podium in every single race...

At least this season, we've had 7 different race winners. Some of the other teams have (almost) caught up with Ferrari's (at least on TGF's car) superior reliability from last year, true, but I can tell you, as a Montoya fan, the German GP was far from boring, given the countless times something has gone wrong while he's been in the lead...

And Raikkonen is another good example. I can bet a lot of Raikkonen fans were very tense watching Malaysia, given that he'd ****ed up at France last year. (And he did admit a driver error that time, something that his teammate has difficulty of doing )

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Wrex

Or is it just me?

It's not just you old mate, it's something that Martin Brundle remarks on nearly ever race. Just goes to show that alot of time and effort has been wasted for decades!

[Valve Bounce]

You want freak results? Get the rain dancers going

[avsfan733]

Sorry to be the stick in the mud, but I dislike the reliability, especially from the top teams. It says to me tht they aren't pushing the technical envelope andhaving things fail on them... Someone once said (and I can't remember who) The perfect race car falls apart on the victory lap

[Mr V]

Colin Chapman i believe, but surely the great man wasn't saying that he didn't want reliability? Just reliability till after the race, and wether a car could do another mile or 100 miles, thats reliability.

[krt917]

Colin Chapman was a great designer, but that philosophy did make his cars weak. In the early days, especially, they fell apart far too often. In later years, Mario Andretti still complained of the cars not always being as strong as they could be.

I do agree that the odd strange result is welcome, but that often comes from wet weather causing problems rather than unreliability. I certainly wouldn't criticise the teams for their improved reliability. Modern lab and computer testing means better preparation and the new points system only emphasises the need to finish races - they've all responded very well.

[Yoong Montoya]

Originally posted by krt917
[B]Colin Chapman was a great designer, but that philosophy did make his cars weak. In the early days, especially, they fell apart far too often.[B]

Yep, and that's something that's become a McLaren tradition in the last few years

BTW didn't Chapman say something like "The perfect racing car is one that falls apart after the finish line"? Jordan and Fisichella certainly proved that theory right in Brazil this year when the engine blew up just after the red flag!

[gttouring]

with engine 'long life regs' going into place, how will they enforce this, one engine to last 1 gp weekend and then further on to 6 weekends , will they impound the motors between GPs?
or if it does go kablooie and they put a new motor in back, will they lose points or just grid positions?

[Mattracer]

Despite all the changes to the formats this year for each GP, the race distance still stays the same- 300 or so kms and the designers are still working within known limits and tolerances regarding engine lifing and durability.

The only difference is that the first "lap" of the GP is run bu oneself on the circuit and the fuel lpads vary, and that has precious little to do with engine durability.

The biggest change is that the mechanics get an earlier night and possibly more of a life on Saturday nights.