Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Single Seater Racing > Formula One

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 31 Jul 2001, 10:14 (Ref:124233)   #1
f1manoz
Veteran
 
f1manoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Australia
Lincolnshire, UK
Posts: 7,294
f1manoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridf1manoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridf1manoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Article on Button's steady decline

http://www.crosswinds.net/~f1rejects...ton/index.html

After you've read this, have a good think to yourself and then you will understand why I think he's over-rated, and why JPM IS the better driver, in more ways than on.

The article proves many things:
a. Williams were correct in dumping Button
b. Button is just a 'celebrity'
c. Montoya is better
d. Button should not be allowed back to Williams
f1manoz is offline  
Quote
Old 31 Jul 2001, 11:08 (Ref:124256)   #2
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,234
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
You've reminded me.

When I looked Button was in front of Fissi and then after the stops he was behind? Can anyone shed some light on that for me please?

Perhaps I should also just mention how objective and unbiased that piece of journalism is.
Peter Mallett is offline  
Quote
Old 31 Jul 2001, 11:12 (Ref:124260)   #3
Liz
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location:
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,451
Liz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridLiz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
This is a well researched and incisive piece of writing and the author spent nearly a week researching it - and everything in it can be substantiated by consulting Autosport magazines from January 2000 to the present.

The photos were chosen by the website but are absolutely perfect for the article though. Most especially the picture of the girlfriend Button dumped vs. the supermodel he is currently "auditioning".
Liz is offline  
Quote
Old 31 Jul 2001, 11:16 (Ref:124263)   #4
enemy-ace
Veteran
 
enemy-ace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Canada
toronto, ontario, canada
Posts: 2,739
enemy-ace should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I'm not a button fan but I'm sorry but that article proves nothing. It's written by someone who states her research was all based on Autosport (a BRITISH media publication). Of course they're going to go ga-ga over Button, he is one of their's afterall. That article is based on one person's interpretation of hearsay, with absolutely no facts to back it up. That's not even jounalism it's just gossip.
enemy-ace is offline  
Quote
Old 31 Jul 2001, 11:23 (Ref:124268)   #5
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,234
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Perhaps I should also just mention how objective and unbiased that piece of journalism is.

And could somebody answer my question please?
Peter Mallett is offline  
Quote
Old 31 Jul 2001, 11:32 (Ref:124275)   #6
angst
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 663
angst should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I thought that was very well thought out, very well researched and well written. Okay, it took a very anti-Button stance from the outset, but you have to question his behaviour and where his priorities lie. Quite insightful I thought.

Last edited by angst; 31 Jul 2001 at 11:32.
angst is offline  
Quote
Old 31 Jul 2001, 11:33 (Ref:124276)   #7
Liz
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location:
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,451
Liz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridLiz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
It wasn't written to prove anything. It is an opinion piece and is submitted as one.

Lighten up, for heaven's sake.
Liz is offline  
Quote
Old 31 Jul 2001, 11:42 (Ref:124278)   #8
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,234
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Could somebody answer my question please?

Or wasn't anybody watching the Benettons until they were in the top six?

Perhaps I should also just mention how objective well written and unbiased that piece of journalism is.
Peter Mallett is offline  
Quote
Old 31 Jul 2001, 11:45 (Ref:124283)   #9
Liz
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location:
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,451
Liz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridLiz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
1) Nobody watches the Benettons except Button's father and Fisi's wife.

2) Pete, you are becoming extremely tedious. Don't you have another string to your harp?
Liz is offline  
Quote
Old 31 Jul 2001, 11:47 (Ref:124284)   #10
enemy-ace
Veteran
 
enemy-ace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Canada
toronto, ontario, canada
Posts: 2,739
enemy-ace should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
In response to Peter Mallett's question, Fisichella stopped on lap 26 while Button stopped on lap 24, Fisichella's stop was also 2.4 seconds quicker, I guess that was enough to put him in front.

Giancarlo Fisichella (fourth): "I am very happy, for Jenson and myself. I made a good first start, but didn't get away so well the second time because the drivers ahead closed the door and I lost a few places. I drove conservatively in the early stages and saved enough fuel to do a slightly longer first stint than planned. When I rejoined I was ahead of Jenson and things continued to go well, although I ran slightly wide near the end and lost a bit of time. The whole result is great for the team, and I would like to thank everyone who has helped make it possible, and a special thanks to Michelin, whose tires were excellent in every respect."

As for the article proving something, my response was to the thread topic and it's statement that the article proved "many things", which it clearly doesn't. And I still think that the article is garbage.

Last edited by enemy-ace; 31 Jul 2001 at 11:49.
enemy-ace is offline  
Quote
Old 31 Jul 2001, 11:57 (Ref:124287)   #11
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,234
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally posted by enemy-ace
In response to Peter Mallett's question, Fisichella stopped on lap 26 while Button stopped on lap 24, Fisichella's stop was also 2.4 seconds quicker, I guess that was enough to put him in front.

Giancarlo Fisichella (fourth): "I am very happy, for Jenson and myself. I made a good first start, but didn't get away so well the second time because the drivers ahead closed the door and I lost a few places. I drove conservatively in the early stages and saved enough fuel to do a slightly longer first stint than planned. When I rejoined I was ahead of Jenson and things continued to go well, although I ran slightly wide near the end and lost a bit of time. The whole result is great for the team, and I would like to thank everyone who has helped make it possible, and a special thanks to Michelin, whose tires were excellent in every respect."
Thank you Mr Ace and well done to both Benetton drivers for sensibly keeping it all together.

Quote:
Originally posted by enemy-ace
As for the article proving something, my response was to the thread topic and it's statement that the article proved "many things", which it clearly doesn't. And I still think that the article is garbage.
Well, I think it is possibly the most objective, unbiased, no I don't. I think its possibly the worst piece of bile I've ever seen.
Peter Mallett is offline  
Quote
Old 31 Jul 2001, 12:00 (Ref:124289)   #12
bella
Race Official
Veteran
 
bella's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
France
Posts: 16,760
bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!
well played liz

and having done the same with my collection of autosports for a projected article a bit ago, i can only say you did a cracking job.

now, if only we could get autosport to take a slightly less pro-jenson line..
bella is offline  
Quote
Old 31 Jul 2001, 12:14 (Ref:124294)   #13
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,234
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Wha?

Y'mean Liz wrote it?

I hope not because I always had a bit more faith in her than that.

A piece of advice. Don't go using Autosport as a sole source of info. If its recent get the race reps from the clubs and compare them with the mag. If its about a driver, at least talk to him/her and get some balance. If its older, then go to the library and read the books. But to use a comic and pass the results off as serious factual journalism is a little bit er..... B'sides I'd be seriously agrieved if I was the editor of Autosport and I got no financial reward for the plagiarism.

Always remember Autosport needs to sell copy and they'll do anything to do so. The bits used in the subject of this thread were lifted out of context. Button wasn't interviewed and had no chance to comment on the content.

Example (I paraphrase) His Father and his Manager "bagging" JPM at every opportunity.

Does that equate to Button "bagging" JPM? Don't think so. Do we know if he sanctions these actions? Nope we don't.

You see what I mean?
Peter Mallett is offline  
Quote
Old 31 Jul 2001, 12:59 (Ref:124315)   #14
Minardi fan
Veteran
 
Minardi fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
England
Llamaville, Kent
Posts: 3,964
Minardi fan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
An interesting article, and one which does not pretend to be something it isn't. It is an unashamed Button-bash. But rather than it being aimed at the boy Bunsen himself, perhaps it should look at what caused all this.

Jenson's trouble is, the media built him up to be Britain's next F1 superstar before he'd even got in the car, and possibly silly old Jenson began to believe the hype surrounding him. No-one gave him a chance to prove himself - all we got from Jim and the idiots at ITV was how wonderful Jenson was, and every week Autosprout had some new rubbish to print about him.

I despised the boy when he started at Williams, simply because of the attention he received. It was undeserved. But by the end of the season I held a great deal of respect for the guy - on the track. He is a very talented F1 driver, who unfortunately has landed a seat driving the worst car on the grid. It is underpowered, turns like a brick (if at all), and does not suit his style.

Now the success has gone, and the media knives are out. What a surprise.

Granted, his flat and yacht-buying antics do nothing to help his credibility, and he should indeed spend more time looking at how he can get some more results before the season is out. But at the same time everyone is giving the guy a tough time for no reason.

Don't blame Jenson for his behaviour - he had a media role to fulfil and unfortunately for him, he fell into the trap of doing it.

I cannot quite believe I have written this much about Jenson Button. And granted it's a load of b*ll*cks I'm sure. But that's my thoughts on the subject.

Last edited by Minardi fan; 31 Jul 2001 at 13:00.
Minardi fan is offline  
Quote
Old 31 Jul 2001, 13:32 (Ref:124334)   #15
Liz
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location:
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,451
Liz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridLiz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Well, Pete, the truth of the matter is, the article was specifically designed to reflect what was said in Autosport and no other magazine, for the very reason that nobody else in any other country gives a rip about Bunsen, and the Brits (as MFan points out) thought he was the Second Coming of Somebody Who Used To Make Us Proud [fill in your British hero here]. And it is an article that was solicited for "F1 Rejects", not "The Jensen Button Love In" or something, and their articles take a certain point of view and a certain tone of voice. Had it been for Autosport or some other "serious" magazine then I would have used other sources and made it quite different in tone.

And if an article makes some of the people furious and some people happy and the rest find something in it to think and/or talk about, then it is a success.

However, I doubt I will ever be invited to audition for the position of Jenson's Girlfriend du jour, nor will I be welcome on his yacht.

Oh deary dear.
Liz is offline  
Quote
Old 31 Jul 2001, 13:45 (Ref:124346)   #16
f1manoz
Veteran
 
f1manoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Australia
Lincolnshire, UK
Posts: 7,294
f1manoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridf1manoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridf1manoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Basically the only reason I posted the article is because finally SOMEONE got off the 'oh Jenson praise thee as the next British WDC' wagon and wrote a critical piece about him, something lacking from magazines such as Autosport, F1 Racing and other varieties not mentioned hence. The British magazines that we get here in Oz that I read do one thing: lay down at his feet and bless the ground he walks on.

I agree with many that it is biased, but it sums him up perfectly I believe. He is a playboy and a journeyman. Sure, he probably does love to race (if you didn't, why would you be in F1? Well money, glam, exposure etc!!) but I, and many others, believe that he's lost complete focus on the task at hand, and is worried more, it seems, about gathering 'toys' and dating the latest woman on the scene.

I've never been a fan. He was over-hyped to begin with, and frankly JPM's results in his first year are far, far, far superior to anything Button produced. I also don't believe he's this big talent everyone says he is. Wasn't he supposed to blow Fisichella out of the water???? Well, he hasn't yet, and there are plenty of rumours he could be moved again. Looks like no Williams drive for him in a few years, and on current form shown (not looking at what he's driving though) he doesn't deserve it. And if you're going to say 'But he scored two points on Sunday'? Big whoop, look at the retirement list!!!

And just to finish, the article itself was not written by the two gentlemen who run 'F1 Rejects'. They reproduce submitted articles, so the article was not produced by the two administrators of the site.
f1manoz is offline  
Quote
Old 31 Jul 2001, 14:58 (Ref:124375)   #17
Liz
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location:
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,451
Liz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridLiz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I don't hate Bunsen. I am exasperated with him for wasting the biggest opportunity of his life by playing with the package and ignoring the gift.

You can't be a failure at 20 years of age. But you can certainly screw up the best chance you'll ever get, if somebody doesn't put you wise.

And this little Emperor ain't got no clothes. Which isn't to say he can't go out and buy some, if somebody will just tell him he's nekkid.
Liz is offline  
Quote
Old 31 Jul 2001, 15:14 (Ref:124376)   #18
Speed
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Panama
Panama, Rep. of Panama
Posts: 2,245
Speed should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally posted by Minardi fan
An interesting article, and one which does not pretend to be something it isn't. It is an unashamed Button-bash. But rather than it being aimed at the boy Bunsen himself, perhaps it should look at what caused all this.
Did you think this before or after knowing it was written by Liz ? (just kidding)
Speed is offline  
Quote
Old 31 Jul 2001, 16:40 (Ref:124401)   #19
enemy-ace
Veteran
 
enemy-ace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Canada
toronto, ontario, canada
Posts: 2,739
enemy-ace should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally posted by Liz
I don't hate Bunsen. I am exasperated with him for wasting the biggest opportunity of his life by playing with the package and ignoring the gift.

You can't be a failure at 20 years of age. But you can certainly screw up the best chance you'll ever get, if somebody doesn't put you wise.

And this little Emperor ain't got no clothes. Which isn't to say he can't go out and buy some, if somebody will just tell him he's nekkid.
So you're really doing Button a service with this article? And here i thought it was just gossip-mongering based on tabloid journalism!
Oh Pleeeaaaasssseeee!
enemy-ace is offline  
Quote
Old 31 Jul 2001, 16:57 (Ref:124410)   #20
Liz
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location:
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,451
Liz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridLiz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
It is neither. It is an opinion piece, and it's my opinion, not yours. [See my earlier thread titled Zonta and Button for disclaimer.]

But if Bunsen were to ask me for my opinion, that opinion is the one he'd get.
Liz is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Aug 2001, 00:35 (Ref:124532)   #21
Wrex
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
 
Wrex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Australia
Melbourne - Home of the Australian GP
Posts: 7,643
Wrex is going for a new lap record!Wrex is going for a new lap record!Wrex is going for a new lap record!Wrex is going for a new lap record!Wrex is going for a new lap record!Wrex is going for a new lap record!
I'm failing to see what all the fuss is about here.

Regardless of who wrote it, and whether you agree with it or not, it is just Liz's opinion for those that are interested to read it.

I can't see how it is different from the driver trashing done by almost every memeber of this forum (including myself) from time to time.

Not only do you not have to agree with it, you don't have to read it.
Wrex is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Aug 2001, 01:03 (Ref:124541)   #22
JeremySmith
Veteran
 
JeremySmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
United Kingdom
Austin Texas
Posts: 11,402
JeremySmith is going for a new world record!JeremySmith is going for a new world record!JeremySmith is going for a new world record!JeremySmith is going for a new world record!JeremySmith is going for a new world record!JeremySmith is going for a new world record!
Complete nonsense...The article that is! No offense Liz but that is my opinion

Last edited by JeremySmith; 1 Aug 2001 at 01:04.
JeremySmith is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Aug 2001, 01:08 (Ref:124543)   #23
Liz
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location:
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,451
Liz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridLiz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Time will tell.

Thanks for reading it though.
Liz is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Aug 2001, 01:15 (Ref:124544)   #24
mac
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 5,702
mac should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridmac should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridmac should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I think I'm turning.

(Cue smartarse comment from Wrex, Moff, EERO, Peter or Jones)

Jenson is improving. He was / is a pawn in my "Webber in F1" campaign. However, now he is performing a bit better (re: closer to his teammate), I'm starting to warm to him. It'll be interesting to see comparative times next time Jenson and Mark test together.
mac is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Aug 2001, 07:07 (Ref:124619)   #25
DNQ
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Australia
Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 4,071
DNQ should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Liz, nice article. I think all the points you brought up were valid, and would have to admit that I agree entirly. From the first Bunsen interview I've ever read, I havn't thought much of him...
DNQ is offline  
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The decline of in car footage...... Knowlesy Formula One 38 25 Nov 2006 18:01
jordans decline -designers RWC Formula One 9 14 Mar 2004 23:17
Barbara Armstrong on Ready Steady Cook Rache Rallying & Rallycross 1 4 Sep 2002 07:57
Ready, Steady, Go! the BTCC is looking good for 2002 adamp_uk Touring Car Racing 7 26 Feb 2002 20:55
[Magazines] Decline of motorsport journalism? Gerard Armchair Enthusiast 13 23 Jul 2000 20:57


All times are GMT. The time now is 15:41.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.