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24 Jun 2003, 17:59 (Ref:641704)
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,215
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Which Series Would You Race Next year -- ALMS or LMES
This is the Monza filed for this weekend:
SR1 Racing for Holland Lammers/Bosch Dome S101 - Judd Racing for Holland Gabbiani/Ortiz Dome S101 - Judd Pescarlo Sport Boullion/Lagorce Courage - Peugeot GLV Racing Lavaggi/TBA FerrariJudd Taurus Andrews/TBA Lola B2K/10B - Judd RN Motorsports Nielsen/Shimoda DBA4-03S - Zytek Automotive Durango Maddalena/Rugolo Durango - Judd Automotive Durango TBA/TBA Durango - Judd Promec Engineering Caffi/Trombetti Promec PJ119 - Sodemo R&M Baldi/Mazza R&M - Judd Team Ascari Lupberger/Zwart Ascari - Judd Fred Goddard Racing Goddard/Arnold Reynard - Nicholson McLaren SR2 Lucchini Engineering Peroni/Savoldi Lucchini SR 2002 SCI Daniels/Randaccio Luchinni SR 2002 GP Racing Collini/Mancini Lucchini Alfa Romeo Team Jota Stack/Hignett Pilbeam - Nissan PiR Competition Bruneau/Rostan Pilbeam - Peugeot Villorba Corse TBA/TBA Lucchini Alfa If you look at this grid and add in Audi UK, Team Goh, Chamberlain, RML, CMS, Lister, Noel Dell, Nasamax, and Norma, at a minimum,which are expected to race in the LMES, plus the best GTS and GT cars what a grid we can expect in the LMES next year. (courtesy of KA on another thread) Also, in an article on the ALMS site, Champion will run ALMS next year, but Audi won't give them a "factory" or a New" car...so they may still run the current chassis....I would expect the usual players in the ALMS Series next year... So...given the above scenarios, which series would you run next year??? If it were me.....ALMS looks like less teams and less overall competition...and my odd of being in the top 3 in class to get an automatic Le Mans bid would be better over on this side of the pond than in Europe... Your thoughts???? |
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24 Jun 2003, 18:08 (Ref:641719)
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#2 | ||
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Veteran
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Re: Which Series Would You Race Next year -- ALMS or LMES
Quote:
 BTW I would take Goh out as they are going to the JGTC, with a plan to return to LM, initially with a works GTS (they are hoping for a japanease manufactuer), and later with a Japanease LMP. And add Taurus Lola. I think the ALMS will be as strong as ever next year, with even more teams but finally the Euro teams (LMP) will have a top class series to race in. The likes of RML, Lister, DBA etc. have all stated an interest in the FIA SCC but in the case of RML/Lister have not commited. I think the LMES will attract these teams. I wouldn't be suprised to see some new names entering, as it is ideal for teams who want plenty of track time, and possibly drivers who can pool there budgets for a good seat/campaign. Like Group C and IMSA GTP, both series attract different teams, in the main, who are only interested in competing in Europe/USA respctively. |
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24 Jun 2003, 18:15 (Ref:641733)
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Join Date: Jan 2003
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My apolgies, JAG....I thought it was KA...
I think the ALMS will be strong, but I think there will be less overall competition thee than in the lMES, given the lineups that you've listed.... I'd rather take my chanses over here...especially when a number of the events (look at Atlanta this weekend) would not have the full complement of cars running and would improve your chances... |
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24 Jun 2003, 18:17 (Ref:641737)
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#4 | ||
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Veteran
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BTW....Taurus is on the list in the Monza field....
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Finally... One American Open Wheel Series!
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24 Jun 2003, 18:52 (Ref:641803)
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#5 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,147
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I would have to say that the teams will go wherever the Audis aren't if they're looking primarily for those qualifying spots.
Outside of the RfH cars, Pescarolo, and maybe Ascari, none of these cars would be able to compete with the Panoz, let alone the Audis. So the LM invites are not going to entice any teams to come to North America, and as soon as Audi UK joins the fray, there'll be one less invite available for the rest. Frankly, these races have less to do with the invite via the win, and more to do with racing to prove to themselves and to ACO that they can race (ie to raise their profile with the ACO so that they get consideration for the discretionary invitations). That said, we know just how much the ACO weights that consideration, as we saw how it benefited Taurus this year. Perhaps they'll pay closer attention to the races on their own continent. |
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__________________
... Since all men live in darkness, who believes something is not a test of whether it is true or false. I have spent years trying to get people to ask simple questions: What is the evidence, and what does it mean? -Bill James
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24 Jun 2003, 18:58 (Ref:641813)
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#6 | ||
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And if Audis are in both????
I'd rather take my chances against the Panoz and its reliability record over the years vs. running against RfH, Ascari and the Courage cars.... My odds would be better atcatching a few podiums over here unless the ALMS has 3 Audis like they did last season |
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Finally... One American Open Wheel Series!
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24 Jun 2003, 19:17 (Ref:641824)
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#7 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,147
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Funny you should mention Panoz' reliability. Seems to me that they've had pretty decent success since JML took over and essentially ceased development. Of course, a win by them would be very surprising this year given they don't have the hotshoes of yesteryear, but not entirely out of the question.
Oh, and it'll help if the drivers don't spin too often. The team seems to be making a move in the right direction here... |
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__________________
... Since all men live in darkness, who believes something is not a test of whether it is true or false. I have spent years trying to get people to ask simple questions: What is the evidence, and what does it mean? -Bill James
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24 Jun 2003, 19:21 (Ref:641828)
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#8 | ||
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I would agree that the program has settled into a solid groove since "going private" with two Top Fives out of two races this year...
I just think that t given the lists above vs the entries in a typical ALMS season, that the fields look a little deeper in Europe...and there will be Audis racing in Europe once the Michelins can be run in the LMES series..they arent allowed in FIA are they??? |
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Finally... One American Open Wheel Series!
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24 Jun 2003, 22:27 (Ref:642054)
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#9 | ||
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Veteran
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sorry, stupid question time..
LMES? |
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24 Jun 2003, 22:43 (Ref:642071)
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Veteran
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Quote:
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25 Jun 2003, 09:57 (Ref:642451)
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#11 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,707
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id race over here, then i might have a chance of seeing myself!
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__________________
"If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now" Douglas Adams. 1952-2001
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25 Jun 2003, 13:24 (Ref:642668)
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#12 | ||
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Join Date: Dec 2002
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LMES then, and maybe ALMS where it doesn't clash, and of course, if there's enough money.
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25 Jun 2003, 13:51 (Ref:642682)
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#13 | ||
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That would be the key -- money -- and the schedules for each respective series next year....
Personally, I could see how Pirenzo's approach would definitely work the other direction: An ALMS team that would run Le Mans in mid-June could move their operation down to Monza to race in the 1000 km, provided next year's event at Monza falls on the same weekend that it does this year... A two-week lag time between events would not be unreasonable, and could be managed quite well... If (as was suggested in the "LM Tourney Beyond 2004" thread) Monza would be moved to mid-April, I also could see an ALMS team running that date at Monza after competing at Sebring in March, then traveling up to Le Mans for Test Day the first weekend in May.... Based on the four venues listed for next year's LMES, unless Monza would be scheduled in March, I could see teams making the trip from Europe to Sebring (Like Taurus did) to begin their year to get a good solid test under race conditions to prepare for the LMES season.... Also, if the last date for LMES would occur in September, I could see a trip to Petit LM in October to close out the year against solid competition.... Otherwise, a trip to North America between dates just to race over here would be expensive, and with a number of the ALMS races being the 2 hr. 45 min. timed events, I don't know if it would be worth the trip... Likewise, for an ALMS team to travel for another 1000 km in July, August or September between dates on the ALMS schedule would likewise be expensive, and would not contribute towards your quest for Series points in either series.... From a strict competition standpoint, I do like the idea...but that team better have a fat budget.... |
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25 Jun 2003, 14:25 (Ref:642709)
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#14 | |||
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Veteran
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Quote:
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__________________
... Since all men live in darkness, who believes something is not a test of whether it is true or false. I have spent years trying to get people to ask simple questions: What is the evidence, and what does it mean? -Bill James
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25 Jun 2003, 14:40 (Ref:642724)
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#15 | ||
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On the surface, I would agree, Paul-Collins...
But look at the past two years, and the events held in ALMS (2002) and FIA-SCC (this past May) for your answers to the "race between Test Day and LM".... The ALMS race at Sears Point, half a world away, was nuts....teams traveled to California to race one month before LM, then began LM preps, and went back to Europe...ALMS learned a big lesson from that, and made a big point of noting that they did not schedule anything between Test Day & LM this year due to the hardships it placed on the teams... I know you're not suggesting and ALMS race, but look at the Lautsring race in May for the FIA... RfH competed due to pressure (according to comments on threads that dealt with this race and the FIA-SCC about 6 weeks or so ago) and Durango ran a car, but Pescarolo was absent, as were other LM competitors.... Granted, those teams were going to learn nothing from running a race on a "Roval" that bears zero resemblance to LM, but there were other factors that kept racers away.. Their focus was Le Mans, and a race in between puts a car that has already been "stickered" by the ACO on Test Day in jeopardy of damage, etc., that would greatly set back their LM effort... I just don't know if teams would run an LMES event between Test Day and the race itself... If I were the ACO, I would get serious input form the many regular teams involved in LM before considering such a move... |
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Finally... One American Open Wheel Series!
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25 Jun 2003, 14:45 (Ref:642733)
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#16 | ||
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Veteran
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Okay Tim, here's a better idea...
Remember back in '00, when the ALMS teams did an "european swing" around LeMans, with the Silverstone race before and the Nurburgring race after. It could be (and I wouldn't be surprised if they choose to) done the same way for the two 1000Km races for '04. With the Sebring 12hrs. being the official start of the international sportscar calendar (especially since the Daytona has become a "closed shop", with Grand Am's rules involved) and the Petit LeMans being the present end, these races can be the best way for entrants from both series to race each other, outside of LeMans. As for a season ender, the previous race at Adelaide ("Race of a Thousand Years") is a great concept. My idea is this; how about the return of an old favorite, the Buenos Aries 1000Km. South America is perfect that time of year, and who knows better to put on a party than Argentina, or Brazil if you prefer. Think about it... |
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Here's to the new age of Sports car/Prototypes...
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25 Jun 2003, 15:39 (Ref:642767)
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#17 | ||
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Veteran
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Question for Veeten:
Do you emember the dates for the Silverstone & Nurburgring events in 2000??? I'd be interested in that, because I do think that something following LM within two weeks (like Monza is this year) would definitely work, as I said earlier....substitute a different venue from LMES into that last weekend of June and it still is great...the date and the proximity are the keys to this.... If teams would be interested in racing a "Before LM Event" at one of the four circuits that will be in the LMES that falls between Test Day, I Say "Go For It"...those three races would be superb races with the best in the world competing against one another.... But Team input would be the Key....and they would have to say "Yes...we will run those two events, or would love to run those three events" before I'd do it.... Otherwise, you're wasting one of the four LMES dates |
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Finally... One American Open Wheel Series!
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25 Jun 2003, 16:10 (Ref:642788)
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#18 | ||
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On South America:
Great Idea!!! On either end of it (Spring in October in S. America or Fall in March down there).... How would the travel work, though? For the LMES events before & after Le Mans, you can truck your team to the other races, thus travel is cheaper for everyone... Off the North American continent, everybody has to be shipped by air or sea....then come back north for PLM or Sebring...not as convenient and certainly more costly for the teams.... That's where the "Official Transporter" sponsor has to be gotten for both series.... |
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25 Jun 2003, 16:23 (Ref:642800)
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#19 | ||||
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Veteran
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Quote:
Quote:
Look at the Silverstone results from May 13 2000 - 50 cars!: Code:
BMW V12 LMR 002/99 BMW Motorsport Panoz LMP-1 Roadster S Panoz Motor Sports Audi R8R 306 Audi Sport North America Audi R8R 308 Audi Sport North America Cadillac Northstar LMP 005 Motorola-DAMS Courage C52 Peugeot 3 Pescarolo Sport Dodge Viper GTS-R C31 Viper Team Oreca Dodge Viper GTS-R C30 Viper Team Oreca Courage C60 Judd 1 SMG Porsche 911 Turbo 0480036 Freisinger Motorsport Lola B2K/10 Rafanelli HU01 Team Rafanelli SRL Porsche 911 GT3-R 692088 Dick Barbour Racing Porsche 911 Turbo 393076 Konrad Motorsport Porsche 911 GT3-R 692002 Alex Job Racing Porsche 911 GT3-R 692110 MCR/Aspen Knolls Porsche 911 Turbo BVB Motorsport Porsche 911 GT3-R 692067 Dick Barbour Racing Chrysler Viper GTS-R C23 Chamberlain Motorsport Porsche 911 GT3-R 692062 Alex Job Racing Porsche 911 Turbo 1463892 Roock Motorsport NA BMW E46 M3 00-001 Prototype Technology Group Chrysler Viper GTS-R C16 Chamberlain Motorsport Porsche 911 GT3-R 692075 Skea Racing International Porsche 911 GT3-R 692077 Team LR Organisation Lola B98/10 K2000 Ford 07 Kremer Racing Porsche 911 GT3-R 692001 RWS Motorsport Porsche 911 GT3-R 692071 Seikel Motorsport Porsche 911 GT3-R 692095 Kyser Racing DNF Panoz LMP-1 Roadster S Panoz Motor Sports BMW E46 M3 001 Prototype Technology Group Porsche 911 GT3-R 692103 Skea Racing International BMW V12 LMR 003/99 BMW Motorsport Cadillac Northstar LMP 002 Motorola-DAMS Reynard 2KQ Judd 004 Johansson Matthews Racing Riley & Scott Mk III Ju 012 Pole Team DNS Ascari A410 Judd 001 Team Ascari DNP Porsche 911 Turbo Roock Motorsport NA Entry only BMW V12 LM 001/98 Thomas Bscher Promotion Lola B2K/10 Ford HU04 Konrad Motorsport Lola B2K/10 Porsche HU03 Champion Racing Last edited by paul-collins; 25 Jun 2003 at 16:23. |
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__________________
... Since all men live in darkness, who believes something is not a test of whether it is true or false. I have spent years trying to get people to ask simple questions: What is the evidence, and what does it mean? -Bill James
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25 Jun 2003, 16:50 (Ref:642819)
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#20 | |
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The Silverstone race in ALMS 2000 was at the end of May, Silverstones traditional Le Mans 'test' race. The LMES organisers are talking about a late May date again at Silverstone.
I think there is great demand for a pre LM race in the UK (Silvestone), as the distance to LM in comparatively small with enough time to prepare for LM. Afterall most teams are busy testing for LM in May anyway. Better to get coverage for yours sponsors in a big pre LM race than test in private with similar costs to the team. The added benefit of the Silverstone race is that a large number of LM bound teams are UK based, plus you would attract a lot of British GT and FIA GT runners (particulalry for a 1000k endurance race which is completly different froom BGT and FIA GT 'sprint' races). Many of these teams are also UK or French based meaning little travel costs. |
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25 Jun 2003, 17:50 (Ref:642877)
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#21 | ||
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Your case is an excellent one...both Paul-Collins and JAG...and the facts back you up....
I'd be all for it....and JAG's added point about the thousands of British fans getting a double treat...Silverstone in May and LM in June....makes the success of this event an even better bet... A Post-Le Mans LMES event in late June at one of the other three courses would probably keep the teams from ALMS there as well...if they could handle the budget....and I totally agree that the transport costs would not be a big factor since they would probably truck their teams to the next race.... I like this whole concept a lot!!!! Thanks for sharing this with us!!! |
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25 Jun 2003, 18:56 (Ref:642962)
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#22 | ||
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Hmmmmm... everybody's doin' the math... and likes what they see.
 Looks like a bonanza for both the teams and sponsors, and with TV coverage(both in europe and north america) it should be a big hit with sportscar fans. 
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25 Jun 2003, 19:13 (Ref:642973)
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#23 | ||
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Now all I have to do is either star making my vacation plans for an extended visit to Europe now, or start lobbying SpeedChannel very heavily to broadcast these races in some way, shape or form here in the US....
I like the first option better....between Silverstone and LM, I can go to Scotland to chase some golf balls or shoot at some birds while I'm over there.... |
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25 Jun 2003, 19:20 (Ref:642981)
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#24 | ||
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Veteran
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To Veeten:
How far away from you is Virginia International Raceway??? Or for that matter, how far is it from various large metropolitan centers on the mid-Atlantic coast???? Why??? I think that the "Full Course" at VIR (as well as Road America) would be an excellent mid-season venue for a big ALMS endurance race....mid-summer event....maybe either around the July 4th holiday, late July, or even closer to Labor day if the post-Le Mans 1000 km in late June would be booked at Nurburgring.... Your thoughts? (sorry that this is off-subject, guys, but he is from that region...thought I would ask) |
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25 Jun 2003, 19:26 (Ref:642988)
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#25 | |
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I think the majority of European teams (Pescarolo, RfH, DBA, Durango) will compete in LMES and American teams in ALMS.
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