[WEC] WEC 2021 season

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

Expect the games to continue

This is nothing... the true game will start next year with peugeot and in 2023 with ferrari and audi/porsche lmdh

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by canaglia

This is nothing... the true game will start next year with peugeot and in 2023 with ferrari and audi/porsche lmdh

Which is why BoP doesn't belong in a manufacturer competition, let alone at this kind of level. We'll never hear the end of it.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

Which is why BoP doesn't belong in a manufacturer competition, let alone at this kind of level. We'll never hear the end of it.

Well open competition ENDED competition, so your options are that or frankly NOTHING. No, not maybe kinda something, the other option is absolutely nothing and a quiet free weekend in June

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

They "found" 4 seconds in a day.

As they do every year. I don't find that kind of gain that unusual. Especially when three of the sessions are practice and one is competitive.

I think we are all in danger of being too clever by half. We believe we are seeing something, but don't consider other, more usual, factors.

Fastest Toyota time from each session, each year.

[Mike E]

Does anyone know if the grid will form up in lap time order or will the classes be split? I sincerely hope the former.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Adam43

As they do every year. I don't find that kind of gain that unusual. Especially when three of the sessions are practice and one is competitive.

I think we are all in danger of being too clever by half. We believe we are seeing something, but don't consider other, more usual, factors.

Fastest Toyota time from each session, each year.

Hey, this is the internet. Take your facts back to academia, we're here to wave torches and pitchforks and demand burning the village to the ground because we're angry

[carbsmith]

Should be less of a lap time jump with Hypercar than LMP1H because you have the same power all the time rather than gaming your your fuel and hybrid boost for single lap runs. Normal pickup for a prototype otherwise is ~2 seconds, although Rebellion jumped 3 last year. I'd give Toyota a bit of extra leeway for the car being new but they also had two extra days to work on setup already.

Rather odd is that the second sector times for Toyota are near identical to last year despite running 110kg heavier, I guess you'd need a finer telemetry breakdown to understand what's really going on in terms of braking/cornering/acceleration in slower corners.

[Mike E]

It's not impossible that a LMP2 crew could win the prototype drivers title this year. With only 3 full season hypercars and questions around new car reliability, some steady runs near the front could add up.
There are only 6 races and 3 of them offer extra points because they are longer than 6 hours. Scoring well in those will be crucial.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

Should be less of a lap time jump with Hypercar than LMP1H because you have the same power all the time rather than gaming your your fuel and hybrid boost for single lap runs.

I was wondering about that. So difficult to say, but I’m unsure of the nuances of the current hybrid. Still have some charge dynamics?

Normal pickup for a prototype otherwise is ~2 seconds, although Rebellion jumped 3 last year.

Yes, go back many many years and at a glance it is 2-3s.
LMP2 and GT are gaining 2s and these are boring classes and established cars.

I'd give Toyota a bit of extra leeway for the car being new but they also had two extra days to work on setup already.

New car, but a decent amount of running. But how much on low fuel? Kobayashi said this was the first time at Spa.

Throw in conditions and how each car reacts.

My point is that we can’t tell, yet we are so certain.

Rather odd is that the second sector times for Toyota are near identical to last year despite running 110kg heavier, I guess you'd need a finer telemetry breakdown to understand what's really going on in terms of braking/cornering/acceleration in slower corners.

Which the ACO will have, so we’re all good.

In the end we have the big works team under the new rules a small gap ahead of LMP2. The other top class car had a ‘mare of a Q session and didn’t get ahead of the leading LMP2. What’s up?

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Well open competition ENDED competition, so your options are that or frankly NOTHING. No, not maybe kinda something, the other option is absolutely nothing and a quiet free weekend in June

I'm not buying that. Let's say they had stuck with LMP1 and Toyota had pulled out due to a lack of credible competition. That would only have meant that one of the biggest prizes in motor racing would have been up for grabs for a suddenly relatively small budget.

Depending on the time-frame, either privateers would have rushed in to get a shot at glory (which would have been great, cf. the all-privateer fields in LMES in the mid-2000s), or smaller manufacturers would have been attracted to try their hand at it, now that you didn't have to spend insane €€€ to catch up to Toyota. Either way, we probably would have gotten a pretty good race out of that and - more importantly - not sacrificed one of the last technology-driven classes in all of professional motorsports.

[Lasse]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

I'm not buying that. Let's say they had stuck with LMP1 and Toyota had pulled out due to a lack of credible competition. That would only have meant that one of the biggest prizes in motor racing would have been up for grabs for a suddenly relatively small budget.

Depending on the time-frame, either privateers would have rushed in to get a shot at glory (which would have been great, cf. the all-privateer fields in LMES in the mid-2000s), or smaller manufacturers would have been attracted to try their hand at it, now that you didn't have to spend insane €€€ to catch up to Toyota. Either way, we probably would have gotten a pretty good race out of that and - more importantly - not sacrificed one of the last technology-driven classes in all of professional motorsports.

Sounds like a lot of if's? The cars of LMP1 was magnificent, but the class was simply too expensive. All the manufactors interest in the new rules clearly shows that. In a few years time we will have what, 5 manufactors in the top class? When is the last time we have seen that? I don't like that the new structure is based on BOP combined with the limitations on design, but if this is what is needed to pull the manufactors to Le Mans and the WEC, what are the other options? To continue with a class that is too expensive and hope that everybody pulls out and that someone else joins looking for an easy win? That doesn't sound too exciting for me.

[WyldStallion]

Hope nothing artificial is done by series at this stage. The speed gap between Hypercar and LMP2 is perfect now because if Toyota has problems, the margin for error is small. You won't get a situation like Le Mans 2017 where the Porsche 919 was able to win overall still and catch the LMP2 winner on pure speed. Not in 2021. I like that much smaller margin of error this go around.

[Mike E]

Driver changes for Rd 2 at Portimao.

Louis Deletraz to replace Renger van der Zande at Inter Europol.
Paul Di Resta to replace Felipe Albuquerque at United. It's a shame Felipe's title defense will be compromised but maybe he can win the IMSA title instead.

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I think we are all in danger of being too clever by half. We believe we are seeing something, but don't consider other, more usual, factors.

I merely commented on what Pascal Vasselon said and the whole "prototypes holding up GTEs, the sky is falling" hysteria on the web regarding LMH which was prompted by Vasselon's comments on Toyota's 2:04 pace being close to ultimate and even better that expected. The fact is it was a whole lot of noise out of nothing, that's all.

Maybe it's just me, but I was rather happy with how the "stratification" panned out. P2s were slower by just enough to be out of the picture in the overall battle, but close enough to pounce should a top class car hit serious trouble. I certainly hope it stays this way. We might be just a couple of red cars away from things getting really interesting.

[Napolis]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

I merely commented on what Pascal Vasselon said and the whole "prototypes holding up GTEs, the sky is falling" hysteria on the web regarding LMH which was prompted by Vasselon's comments on Toyota's 2:04 pace being close to ultimate and even better that expected. The fact is it was a whole lot of noise out of nothing, that's all.

Maybe it's just me, but I was rather happy with how the "stratification" panned out. P2s were slower by just enough to be out of the picture in the overall battle, but close enough to pounce should a top class car hit serious trouble. I certainly hope it stays this way. We might be just a couple of red cars away from things getting really interesting.

The moaning was stupid.
The idea that spec LMP2's would be allowed to be first overall was laughable.
Toyota, Peugeot, Ferrari, Porsche, Audi, Acura, us and others at the great race tracks of the world is what's going to happen. GTE will become GT3 at both IMSA and WEC/Le Mans. LMP 2 will be some where in between but way behind the top class. While I'm predicting this year we will be fast. So will Toyota. Alpine has a problem they can't solve. They can't stuff a large enough tank into their already Homologated tub to go as far as Toyota and we will and that will be a real disadvantage for them. Next year if they want to join they will have to build a Hypercar.

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by Napolis

Next year if they want to join they will have to build a Hypercar.

An interesting story to follow. Hopefully they commit to it.

[Gingers4Justice]

It’s a bit odd that we haven’t heard more from Alpine about that. Building a hyper car for next year simply isn’t possible - so unless there is some serious arm twisting from them to keep the Rebalpine alive for another year, they’ll have to take a hiatus from the top class.

[canaglia]

renault didn't even give enough budget to alpine/signatech to buy a second spare R13 chassis, it's basically impossible they are going to commit to hypercar...

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

Maybe it's just me, but I was rather happy with how the "stratification" panned out. P2s were slower by just enough to be out of the picture in the overall battle, but close enough to pounce should a top class car hit serious trouble. I certainly hope it stays this way. We might be just a couple of red cars away from things getting really interesting.

No, not just you. I thought it worked just fine. Spicy enough at the start, but the Toyotas and the Alpine quick enough to establish the 'stratification' over the race length. Yes, problems for a hypercar will put them back in the LMP2 pack, but I'm comfortable enough with that.

Originally Posted by Napolis

The moaning was stupid.

Ah but Jim, that's what the internet and social media are for!

[Napolis]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

No, not just you. I thought it worked just fine. Spicy enough at the start, but the Toyotas and the Alpine quick enough to establish the 'stratification' over the race length. Yes, problems for a hypercar will put them back in the LMP2 pack, but I'm comfortable enough with that.



Ah but Jim, that's what the internet and social media are for!

^ true

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

No, not just you. I thought it worked just fine. Spicy enough at the start, but the Toyotas and the Alpine quick enough to establish the 'stratification' over the race length. Yes, problems for a hypercar will put them back in the LMP2 pack, but I'm comfortable enough with that.

Me too.

Got the impression over the weekend a lot of people are round here.

Ah but Jim, that's what the internet and social media are for!

Got the impression over the weekend that a lot of people...

[Ferrari333SP]

At LeMans the HP advantage of the Hypercars will easily keep them ahead of the best LMP2's

[Adam43]

Prepare to be outraged people!

Mentioned in this article are details of the LMH performance boost provided before the race weekend! It’s an travesty.

Details of the BoP correction mentioned by ACO technical director Thierry Bouvet in a pre-event press conference hosted by the WEC promoter and the FIA emerged after the race.

The atmospheric co-efficient designed to remove the advantage of running a turbocharged engine over a normally-aspirated motor at altitude was removed for Spa, which lies at approximately 600m in the Ardennes mountains.

This gave Toyota's twin-turbo 3.5-litre twin-turbo a power boost of 18kW or 24bhp, which Gibson Technology was able to match on the 4.5-litre normally-aspirated V8 in the Alpine.

The move was designed to increase the performance gap between the cars running in the Hypercar class and the LMP2 prototypes, which was a topic of debate throughout race week.

Vasselon estimated the power increase was worth 0.55s a lap.

https://www.autosport.com/wec/news/a...utm_content=uk

[canaglia]

Since seems impossible alpine could get a larger fuel tank, the only way to set the exact number of min. refuels for everyone in LMH is to set max stint lenght as happens during spa 24H where none is allowed to have stint longer than 65 minutes (in green flag condition). Since alpine can't do longer than 47 minutes, the limit should be set to 45min, forcing everyone to refuel 7 times at least (or 6 in case of long cumulative SC periods).

[Adam43]

They could just reduce the maximum energy so Alpine’s tank is adequate.

Although I’m not keen on shorter stints.