1987 World Touring Car Championship Discussion

[racer69]

We've had a lot of threads here lately discussing Group A cars, so i thought how about a thread dedicated to the greatest touring car championship (in terms of everything put together) for these cars, the first World Touring Car Championship from 1987.

Plenty of things to discuss;

- Why did it take until 1987 for a world series for touring cars to first take place?

- Why after a year of planning, sponsorfinding (they had a series naming-rights backer) and hard work by the NZ-based Strathmore Group, did the FIA at the last minute decide to hand the running of the series over to Bernie Ecclestone, who straightaway undid all the hard work done by Strathmore, and decided to impose huge entry costs per car for series registration(aimed at weeding out the privateers for a manufacturer-only series), while at the same time barring any non-registered entries from scoring points or earning prizemoney....(though the individual promoters could still pay prizemoney to anyone, the money Brock earned from winning Bathurst helped save his team), and at the same time killing the interest the likes of Nissan had in competing in the 1987 series, leaving just Ford, BMW, Maserati & Alfa Romeo (who pulled out after the European part of the season anyway)

- I wasn't complaining, but how did Australia wind up with two rounds of the championship?

- Presuming the Eggenberger Fords ran in the same spec from their debut at Brno until Bathurst, why did it take until Bathurst for someone to query the legality of the cars? Sure there was a supposed underhand deal with BMW, but there were plenty of other private Sierra's, as well as the likes of Maserati & Alfa Romeo to kick up a fuss

- Why were the FIA & Bernie so keen on killing it from the start anyway. All we heard all year were rumour after rumour, like the series wouldn't happen, it would be stopped after Silverstone, and the biggest joke of all, the continued barrow-pushing of Procar, which effectively killed Group A off as a whole....despite the fact only the 1 Procar spec car was ever built!


But on a whole, despite the controversies, weren't we treated to some spectacular racing that year, in what ultimatly in my opinion was a successful series in terms of the on-track spectacle.

Every round featured big grids filled with a variety of cars, there were plenty of interlopers & locals (particularly at the British, Australian, New Zealand & Japanese rounds) who were competitive, and all who competed seemed enthusiastic about the whole thing, and were committed (along with new manufacturers like Nissan & Toyota) to the future of the series......just a pity the governing body couldn't have cared less about it as it may have taken some manufacturers eyes off F1 abit....

Time for some discussion

[ensign14]

Any competitor to F1 has been squished by the FIA/FISA. Look at Group C for a start and the fact that having an F1 race at Indy helped provide the readies to get the IRL up and running to kill CART. Bernie obviously wanted the Silhouette series (which he controlled - and which I may be alone in thinking would actually have been an interesting idea, a sort of Euro NASCAR) so maybe that coloured any opinions.

[KA]

Originally Posted by ensign14

Any competitor to F1 has been squished by the FIA/FISA. Look at Group C for a start and the fact that having an F1 race at Indy helped provide the readies to get the IRL up and running to kill CART. Bernie obviously wanted the Silhouette series (which he controlled - and which I may be alone in thinking would actually have been an interesting idea, a sort of Euro NASCAR) so maybe that coloured any opinions.

I think there's something in that- I remember a piece in Autosport, possibly the end-of-season review, in which the author described all of the political stuff around the change of promoter, championship entry fee etc with a comment something like 'you'd almost get the impression someone didn't want this to succeed'

The Procar series could have been interesting, but to me was pitched at a totally different market- as I remember, it was manufacturers-only, 2x sprint race format and possibly intended to run as a support at GP meetings.

Like the adoption of F1-style 3.5 litre regs in Group C, I always had the suspicion that it was intended to draw the manufacturers into F1 by the 'well you're already making basically an F1-legal engine for your ProCar/Sportscar, so wouldnt it makes sense....' route....

[racer69]

It was reported in some cases to be as little as plastic bootlids, but either way the cars were underweight.....interesting note to that is that Moff & Harves never received the trophy for winning that race, one assumes BMW still have it somewhere.

Another thing that suprised the Australian contingent who went to Europe in 1986 as a pre-cursor to a WTCC attack in 1987 was the state of the fuel and some of the teams 'special brews'

Originally Posted by KA

The Procar series could have been interesting, but to me was pitched at a totally different market- as I remember, it was manufacturers-only, 2x sprint race format and possibly intended to run as a support at GP meetings.

After the Procar idea was dropped, rumours always cropped up at some point for the following two or three seasons of plans to run 'manufacturers only' international touring car races supporting various GP's, most of the time the ruleset linked was the DTM version of Group A

[chunterer]

Yep it was going to be called 'Super Europe Cup' and most likely run by ITR which ironically then ended up running the ITC/DTM thing which was the same series in principal to what a Grp A one would have been.

I also think the ITC was the kind of concept Bernie wanted with Procar but didn't get....... so that didn't last very long either....

Any rate! WTCC was a brilliant for a young Grp A fan like me. I watched/read up on most of the International Grp A serie in the 80's and was gutted when the WTCC, and then shortly after the ETC stopped....

Made absolutely no sense at all to me.

The 1988 WTCC would've been mega.

Eggenberger would've continued with the RS500 for sure, probably up against much the Skyline GTS-R would've featured strongly too with at least 2 European entered cars and possibly 2 semi works cars from Australia. And of course a works entered TWR Commodore squad with as many as 3-4 cars no doubt? Tom was looking on the Holden as the ideal replacement to the Rovers and something to challenge the Sierras. We'd also have had much stronger Supra Turbos competing than we ended up with as well.

I also reckon that Alfa 75 would've been much closer to the M3 after some more development and then Merc would've wheeled out an upgraded Merc 190/16 to compete (I guess what the 2.5/EVO ended up being)

But for me the Turbo's in unrestricted form started the beginning of the end of Grp A. I would've preferred Turbo's with restrictions up against lots of big engined normally aspirated models in the big class. Like 1986 - ok the Turbos weren't actually restricted but the competition between Rover, Ford, Holden, Volvo and BMW at the front was intense. Highly competitive and entertaining year.

Manufacturers that had been there or might have cars 'on the stocks' in development for the WTCC suddenly only had domestic series to compete in.

[William Dale Jr]

Originally Posted by chunterer

The 1988 WTCC would've been mega.

Now there's a thought. How would the 1988 WTCC have gone had the '87 edition ran smoothly and been popular?

The '88 Silverstone TT proved that International-level Group A touring car racing could turn on a great race provided that there was quality equipment in the field. Johnson had his cars better developed; Rouse's operation was much stronger by dint of not trying to prepare cars for the WTCC and BTCC; Eggenberger, of course, had his cars percolating along quite nicely.

The Nissan had still yet to complete it's development period, but proved to be very strong at places like Zolder, Dijon, and Donington. It would never have the outright power to beat Sierras at the Silverstones and Spas of the world, but they would have been able to push the Sierras and prey on their bugbear of reliability. It would have been interesting to see how the Howard Marsden-run HR31 would have gone at the Spa 24 Hour in 1989.

Walkinshaw would have struggled throughout 1988 with a car that was not competitive with the turbocharged opposition it would have faced. The light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel TWR VL would not, as the TT and that year's Bathurst showed, immediately prove to be the Sierra-beater that was promised. Furthermore, with the death of the ETCC and the seeming apathy of Holden towards the ATCC, the car received absolutely only limited development in 1989. In 1990, however, the car finally received the development that it sorely needed by the HRT and by Larry Perkins, and the results were there for all to see in that year's enduros. With that kind of development in 1989, the car would have been a contender in the longer distance races.

[Splendid Cat]

Originally Posted by racer69

- Presuming the Eggenberger Fords ran in the same spec from their debut at Brno until Bathurst, why did it take until Bathurst for someone to query the legality of the cars?

Ermm, Brock, Holden, The Mountain...

[racer69]

Originally Posted by Splendid Cat

Ermm, Brock, Holden, The Mountain...

Brock wasn't involved in the protest though, it was led by Frank Gardner and JPS BMW, with initial support from the Peter Jackson Nissan Team & the Roadways Commodore team (Grice & Percy)

[KA]

I'm sure I remember reading something written at the time that suggested a certain amount of rule-bending was tolerated in Europe, so long as no-one did anything too outrageous. I know they were DTM cars which had never been near an ETCC round, but didn't the AMG Mercs that went to Bathurst the previous year have trouble with the scrutineers- carbon-fibre in all kinds of places where it shouldn't have been, that kind of thing?

If you look at the number of protests and homologation issues that flew around in European Group A, it certainly suggests that most of the top teams were pushing their luck...

[Splendid Cat]

Originally Posted by racer69

Brock wasn't involved in the protest though, it was led by Frank Gardner and JPS BMW, with initial support from the Peter Jackson Nissan Team & the Roadways Commodore team (Grice & Percy)

Maybe evidence of the cultural divide. Aussies hate getting beat at home. Anything to win.

In 85 Dick Johnson's sniping at the JRA assualt was childish to the point of amusement. He couldn't protest them.

Bit like cricket...

[William Dale Jr]

Originally Posted by Splendid Cat

Maybe evidence of the cultural divide. Aussies hate getting beat at home. Anything to win.

No one enjoys getting humiliated at home, and when it gets done by a car that's blatantly outside the written rules...

The European teams were warned at Spa by the organisers of the Bathurst race to tidy their acts up as Australian scrutineering was a little more strict than they were used to. That there was no RS500 Sierra to compare the Eggenberger car to was unfortunate, as it would have solved the matter there and then; the red and black cars would have romped away and won the race legally, Brock would only have 8 Bathurst wins, and Klaus & Klaus would've won the WTCC driver's championship.

Car legality was always going to be the problem with an international touring car championship that was so heavily based on production cars. Every country, every team, had a different interpretation of the rules - some (cough-TWR-cough) more liberal than others - and that was always going to be the area where a world championship was likely to have problems. Not championship-killing problems, though; the FIA had Bernie for that!

P.S. Dick might not have been able to protest the TWR cars in '85, but he sure knew what to protest on them in '88!

[malscar]

What about the wholesale exclusion of BMW at the first round. How else could Moff and Harves had won.

[KA]

Originally Posted by malscar

What about the wholesale exclusion of BMW at the first round. How else could Moff and Harves had won.

If I remember correctly, the reason given for the BMW exclusons was that they were running unhomologated lightweight panels- the only M3 not DQ'd was a Hungarian privateer entry, which I think had been built up from a street M3 shell, rather than a BMW Motorsport kit, so didn't have the illegal parts

[Splendid Cat]

Back in the Autumn of 86, when the impending WTCC was gathering pace, Autosport hedged it's bets on TWR running Audi 200 Turbos. Anybody know where this rumour came from?

[racer69]

VolvoGroupA - That is very interesting reading, as at the time TWR was also publicly tied up with Holden in producing their new VL Group A car for 1988. TWR had also obviously planned on running two Holden's in the 1987 WTCC, and fronted with 1 car at the Nurburgring WTCC round.

Despite the article mentioning the possibility of a TWR Volvo entry at Silverstone, could TWR have been doing 'contract work' so to speak for Team SRS?

[VolvoGroupA]

Originally Posted by racer69

VolvoGroupA - That is very interesting reading, as at the time TWR was also publicly tied up with Holden in producing their new VL Group A car for 1988. TWR had also obviously planned on running two Holden's in the 1987 WTCC, and fronted with 1 car at the Nurburgring WTCC round.

Despite the article mentioning the possibility of a TWR Volvo entry at Silverstone, could TWR have been doing 'contract work' so to speak for Team SRS?

TWR perheps saw potential in the Volvo after the ETC season in -85 and -86? For after all Volvo whould have also won the ETC -86 if it werent for the three victorys that was taken from them, they did run with one race with a dashboard that didnt follow the regulations, it was to light. So perheps TWR was doing 'contract work' with Volvo? Must look into this more now...

In the same time I wonder because before I read this article I had no idea about TWR being involved with Volvo in Group-A. So its very strange to that of all the pics I have of Volvo Group-A not even one have a sponsorssticker no nothing that can confirm the fact that TWR was behind Volvo in anything. Perheps he was a 'passive sponsor' like Volvo themselfs were in the beginning of Volvo entering Group-A, it was first in -85 Volvo confirmed their involvment in Group-A with Volvo. I will look in more to this with one of my swedish friends here back home and see what he can tell me about it.

This pics I enclose are the same car only in diffrent versions =) The former Per Stureson DTM winner car from -85.

[DRG]

1987 WTCC - brings back wonderful memories but also makes me think "if only...."

Here in Australia there was huge interest with Channel 7 vowing they would show each race live. When the Brock/Holden split climaxed just before the start of the championship we were left with 10 minute highlights on "Sportsworld", a weekly Sunday morning sports show however this petered out the virtually nil coverage until the championship hit our shores in October.

I guess the Championship may have gone the same way the Australian C'Ship went in the wearly 90's with handicapping once the GTR's would have arrived on the scene and begun dominating. Nevertheless I also rued the fact that such a great conecpt only lasted 1 year....

[racer69]

Originally Posted by DRG

Here in Australia there was huge interest with Channel 7 vowing they would show each race live. When the Brock/Holden split climaxed just before the start of the championship we were left with 10 minute highlights on "Sportsworld", a weekly Sunday morning sports show however this petered out the virtually nil coverage until the championship hit our shores in October.

Channel 7 probably said they'd televise rounds of the 1987 WTCC live with good intentions, but the problem was it would only have been possible if there was a host broadcaster doing the rounds live to provide the live feed. As far as i know Hay Fisher filmed all the European rounds, like they did in previous years with the ETCC, but this was for post-produced highlights, not live coverage (same thing happened when 7 wanted to televise the 1988 TT at Silverstone when Johnson went over live, no local TV station was providing a live feed)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZl155k3iaM

This link though which is a highlight clip of the first WTCC round from Monza, seems to link Hay Fisher footage (their stuff was usually ground mounted camera's positioned right next to the guardrails) with what looks like local Italian TV coverage (when the M3s are going through the first chicane, you can hear foreign language commentary mixed in there, from what looks like 'Live-TV' footage)

For English speaking countries the only rounds as far as i know that received trackside coverage were Bathurst, Calder (In Australia at least all it got was 60mins highlights, though was taped live) & Wellington....

[Jesper OH]

Besides a 60 minutes highlights of James Hardie 1000, I have only ever seen the 1987 WTCC covered by a 20 or 30 minute Ford Texaco music video - "Winning Star" was the title if I remember.

Jesper

[racer69]

Originally Posted by DRG

Here in Australia there was huge interest with Channel 7 vowing they would show each race live. When the Brock/Holden split climaxed just before the start of the championship we were left with 10 minute highlights on "Sportsworld", a weekly Sunday morning sports show however this petered out the virtually nil coverage until the championship hit our shores in October.

In follow up to this;

From the August 7, 1986 edition of Autosport

...As we understand it FISA will announce that they have reached agreement with the promotion company West Nally. Every round of the championship will be televised with each host country supplying coverage which will be edited and packaged by an as yet unnamed company (rumoured to be Channel 7 Australia)

[Slartibartfast]

I have some decent footage of the 1987 Silverstone TT courtesy of the BBC. It's about 30 minutes long. The weather was terrible..... Luckily, when I attended the TT in 1988, the sun was shining.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

I have some decent footage of the 1987 Silverstone TT courtesy of the BBC. It's about 30 minutes long. The weather was terrible..... Luckily, when I attended the TT in 1988, the sun was shining.

As I recall it snowed! Remember that photography stand on the exit of Copse? Stood there for an hour then could hardly get down the steps because my legs had gone numb!

[chunterer]

Yup, blinking horrid weather all race it was. I was in the stands by the s/fline but the rain was coming in horizontal or something mad!!

'84 was also very bad but only for about an hour, not all 4!!

[KA]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Yup, blinking horrid weather all race it was. I was in the stands by the s/fline but the rain was coming in horizontal or something mad!!

'84 was also very bad but only for about an hour, not all 4!!

I don't think I've ever got rained on as much sitting in a stand at Silverstone....

[chunterer]

I think my top 3 'drenched on' race meetings were:

'87 TT
'97 FIA GT
'93 Donington GP

Oh and a special mention for the inaugural Superprix in 1986.