Where will Pilbeam fall in the P1 or P2?

Megatron · 15 Sep 2003, 12:13 (Ref:719455)

The Pilbeam is a bit of a car that is in the middle of the new formula for P1 and P2 next year. Yes, the car was built as an alumium (non carbon) SRPII but was also heavily modfied and given a new engine to compete (or hope to) with the MG and/or DBA.

When the new regs come in next year, will Pilbeam continue to try and be up with the big boys or will they go back to P2?

cybersdorf · 15 Sep 2003, 12:40 (Ref:719498)

Since it is a 675, it would be in LMP1 I believe.

Fogelhund · 15 Sep 2003, 15:18 (Ref:719629)

LMP1, unless they extensively rework the car.

BSchneiderFan · 15 Sep 2003, 16:04 (Ref:719680)

If it IS LMP1, the Pilbeam teams will get slaughtered.

pirenzo · 15 Sep 2003, 16:10 (Ref:719683)

Aren't they getting slaughtered anyway

cybersdorf · 15 Sep 2003, 17:23 (Ref:719757)

As it is now, it will be an LMP1; could be that they'll revise it, and run in LMP2, though.

Tim Northcutt · 15 Sep 2003, 18:13 (Ref:719807)

It is my understanding that "revising" a chassis from 2003 specs to 2004 specs would be a major undertaking....which is what it would take to be eligible as an LMP2....

I'm not convinced that it can be done easily on an existing chassis....

Now if Pilbeam wants to take what they have learned from their recent revisions to the chassis, and utilize those elements in a new chassis that they can sell, or maybe create a partnership with the die-hard ALMS and FIA-SCC teams who have run their cars in the past, that is another story altogether....

But I don't believe that Pilbeam can create a "Conversion Kit" for their existing chassis...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I could've sworn that MulsanneMike has said in earlier threads that this whole conversion concept would be difficult at best....I trust Mike as a reliable source....

dretceterini · 15 Sep 2003, 18:17 (Ref:719817)

It seems to me all the LM675 cars, except for the Lola/MGs will be put to pasture, as they won't be very competitive in LMP1 and would require too much costly modification to be able to run in LMP2...not worth bothering for most teams..

billnchristy · 15 Sep 2003, 19:02 (Ref:719904)

I was thinking that too, the LMP 675 concept is a bit swayed as far as the cars go...

As far as the Pilbeam, the Euro teams that run the SRP2 Pilbeams would still be LM2s would they not? Just the Bucknum Pilbeam being considered a 1? It doesnt seem like the mods. were that successful, although it did qualify much better than the past at Laguna!!

Fogelhund · 15 Sep 2003, 19:03 (Ref:719905)

Quote:

Originally posted by dretceterini
It seems to me all the LM675 cars, except for the Lola/MGs will be put to pasture, as they won't be very competitive in LMP1 and would require too much costly modification to be able to run in LMP2...not worth bothering for most teams..

Let's not forget about the DBA, it should be competitive.

billnchristy · 15 Sep 2003, 19:08 (Ref:719918)

Oh yeah, youre right, it is competitve as both a 675 and a 900 (well SRP1)

gttouring · 15 Sep 2003, 19:12 (Ref:719925)

ccybersdorf: since it is a 675 it'll be placed in 900?
which cars actually made the 675 minimum? what i would like to bring to your attention is that these cars cn go in any direction as most were portly and weighed in at over 730kg... so the pilbeam can put on some ballast weight and actually end up a 750

Fogelhund · 15 Sep 2003, 19:23 (Ref:719942)

gttouring - take a browse through some of the threads here. MuslanneMike provided very concise detail as to why this is not so simple. It is not just weight, there is a requirement in LMP750 that would somehow require a full redesign of the underside of the cars, at least that is how I remember it.

Most LMP675's will be obsolete.

Fogelhund · 15 Sep 2003, 19:40 (Ref:719958)

Annoying anti edit function.

Quote:

The current crop of cars would require extensive modification to meet the new LMP2 rules (or LMP1 for that matter) The ACO has substantially changed the overhangs at both ends of the car from the 2003 ruleset. Enough that it would require new tubs on the carbon fiber chassis cars, and new crash testing, not to mention the changes to the cockpit area (double roll hoops).

Found this in the archives.....

Tim Northcutt · 15 Sep 2003, 21:18 (Ref:720060)

Thanks for finding that, Fogelhund....I couldn't remember the specifics but I knew that the changes were substantial....

cybersdorf · 15 Sep 2003, 21:38 (Ref:720076)

Quote:

Originally posted by gttouring
[B]ccybersdorf: since it is a 675 it'll be placed in 900?

gttouring: no, since it is a 675 it'll be placed in LMP1.

MulsanneMike · 15 Sep 2003, 21:50 (Ref:720088)

The main issue converting a '03 spec car to '04 is the underfloor rules. The new "tunnel/diffuser" now begins some 1000 mm in front of the rear wheel (as opposed to at the rear wheel centerline for '03 and later). The downforce-reducing/yaw-stability-increasing chamfer that runs down the side of the car also is a major change. Essentially the outer edge of the car is some 100 mm above the reference plane as the chamfer's 7 degree angle bring's that point up.

So for next year till '05, your options are to continue to run your '03 car in '03 spec., or build a new car to '04 spec.

Fogelhund · 15 Sep 2003, 22:10 (Ref:720102)

Thanks Mike.

gttouring · 16 Sep 2003, 02:15 (Ref:720221)

ah yes i see now
and Cybers quite correct, sorry. 900 is going to be named LMP1
the more descriptive term LMP900 i rather am fond of as LMP1 has shades or SRP1, SRP2 ala Grand Am

gttouring · 16 Sep 2003, 02:16 (Ref:720222)

or is it SR1 and SR2 and DP poop?

dretceterini · 16 Sep 2003, 02:28 (Ref:720226)

The DBA will have to race in LMP1 without rather major modifications, as will the Lola/MGs.

Again, I can't really see people making the modifications needed to race any curreny LM675/SR2 car in LMP2 next year.

There are rumors R&S is now working on a LMP2 car for next year.

paul-collins · 16 Sep 2003, 13:18 (Ref:720701)

Hey doc, any connection to the Jon Lewis news?

Tim Northcutt · 17 Sep 2003, 20:02 (Ref:722289)

That connection would seem logical, but who knows...

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