[LM24 Race] 2012 24 Hours of Le Mans Race Thread

[NightStalk3r]

Originally Posted by tux

The puncture cost Imsa the GTE AM win

Putting Pons in the car cost them the win, Lamy had already passed Pons by the time he got the puncture.

[tux]

Originally Posted by NightStalk3r

Putting Pons in the car cost them the win, Lamy had already passed Pons by the time he got the puncture.

But Larbre had to pit Lamy on the last lap no matter what because they thought Canal had done less than his minimum driving time which could have resulted in IMSA protesting the result.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100474

[The Badger]

http://www.dailysportscar.com/viewAr...565AC725261E34

[gwyllion]

That is the Q+A that Toyota sent around yesterday: http://www.toyotahybridracing.com/qa...hony-davidson/

[gregtummer]

https://twitter.com/RWestbrook1/stat.../photo/1/large

Epic.

[nasdriv87]

hi guys, what about this hibrid michelin tires???

maybe it didn't fit well during dry racing for e-tron and ultra like RLM stated while transmissions where audis were trying to get the correct temperature for them "zigzaggeding" in the le mans straights.

= warming tires while racing in the le mans straights (did not remember correct word here) sorry

but, ts030 wasn't using the same hibrid michelin tires too??? or only audi did???

[chernaudi]

"Hybrid" tire was the slick tire that Michelin developed for Audi and Toyota that used a slick tread and the intermediate wet's sidewalls. That's the tire that Gene used at Spa to reel in the e-trons on the damp/drying track.

[Holt]

Touching on those who say Davidson's accident proved the Mulsanne Chicanes haven't made anything safer:

I had a chance to watch the replay again of his airborne accident. If he was going 30mph faster at that point thanks to no chicanes, its very likely he doesn't nose the car into that tire barrier.

Its more likely that the extra 30mph keeps him airborne long enough to clear the tire barrier alltogether, or hit it at an awkward angle, perhaps with all 4 tires still not yet on the ground. At that point the car would likely break in half and clear the barrier, strewing large pieces of debri into spectator or marshall areas.

Davidson hit the barrier at the 2nd best possible angle, head on. The best angle would be for him to back it in. If the car was traveling 30mph faster at that point thanks to no chicanes, he would have likely hit the barrier perhaps roof first or any other awkward angle that would have made the accident much nastier then it already was.

30mph faster also means higher drop from the air, which was probably what broke his vertabrae, 30mph faster also means 30mph faster into the tire barrier. 30mph faster is HUGE. Dale Earnhardt was killed at Daytona in a crash in which it's impact was like going from 35-0 in a fraction of a second. 30mph faster into the tire barrier could have been catastrophic

[Aysedasi]

This is all very serious speculation.....

[rich07]

Originally Posted by tux

Larbres pitstop is explained here http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100474

The puncture cost Imsa the GTE AM win

Thankyou! Well that makes a lot of sense. Julien Canal seems not have to spent much time behind the wheel. Im guessing Lamy was the complete opposite in terms of driving time.

[gregtummer]

Originally Posted by Holt

Touching on those who say Davidson's accident proved the Mulsanne Chicanes haven't made anything safer:

I had a chance to watch the replay again of his airborne accident. If he was going 30mph faster at that point thanks to no chicanes, its very likely he doesn't nose the car into that tire barrier.

Its more likely that the extra 30mph keeps him airborne long enough to clear the tire barrier alltogether, or hit it at an awkward angle, perhaps with all 4 tires still not yet on the ground. At that point the car would likely break in half and clear the barrier, strewing large pieces of debri into spectator or marshall areas.

Davidson hit the barrier at the 2nd best possible angle, head on. The best angle would be for him to back it in. If the car was traveling 30mph faster at that point thanks to no chicanes, he would have likely hit the barrier perhaps roof first or any other awkward angle that would have made the accident much nastier then it already was.

30mph faster also means higher drop from the air, which was probably what broke his vertabrae, 30mph faster also means 30mph faster into the tire barrier. 30mph faster is HUGE. Dale Earnhardt was killed at Daytona in a crash in which it's impact was like going from 35-0 in a fraction of a second. 30mph faster into the tire barrier could have been catastrophic

Read my post here: http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....4&postcount=23

And let me know what you guys think.

[The Badger]

The drivers want more power ..... ask Andy Wallace for a start .

[Articus]

If there were no chicanes maybe he would have been past the Ferrari already

Im sure each configuration has its drawbacks. W or W/O chicanes.

[Holt]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

This is all very serious speculation.....

I agree, but we didn't have to see the possibilities of that crash happening at speeds 30+mph thanks to the Mulsanne chicanes which keep the top speeds down.

Speeds over 220mph is really a thing of the past that most racing series do not see useful, safe, or helpful to on track racing. Indycars race at Indianapolis with similiar horsepower to sportscars, about 550, and they have similiar top speeds to sportscars at Le Mans, about 215mph. They've found that the racing is just as good at that speed not to mention safer. When they were going 240mph in the mid 90s they lost Scott Brayton who had what looked like a harmless spin into the wall. That extra 20, 25mph can have tragic consequences.

Yes they have raced 220mph on the Mulsanne since the 60s. They also ran past trees with no guardrails in front of them. Theres alot of things in racing that have been done for ages that in hindsight wasn't really the safest or smartest thing to do. NASCAR use to race 220mph at Daytona or Talladega, but they'd never consider doing that again.

If somehow they could keep the prototypes to under 220mph while greatly improving the quality of fencing along the Mulsanne I wouldn't mind seeing the chicanes removed.

Originally Posted by gregtummer

Read my post here: http://tentenths.com/forum/show...4&postcount=23

And let me know what you guys think.

If you speed up the prototypes then that opens up a new danger, the closing speeds will be much greater giving GT and LMP drivers less time to react.

Personally I believe the speeds of both GT and LMP cars are fine as they are, they need to work on helping LMP drivers identify the experience level of GT drivers ahead of them.

Originally Posted by Articus

If there were no chicanes maybe he would have been past the Ferrari already

A GT car could always appear at that point with or without chcianes.

[chernaudi]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Hows Ant Davidson doing ?

Father Davidson posted in the "Is the Am class a bad idea?" thread that Ant will be in a body cast for a while, so he'll miss some races for Sky's F1 coverage, but is in otherwise good shape and still in good spirits.

[GTfour]

Originally Posted by Holt

I agree, but we didn't have to see the possibilities of that crash happening at speeds 30+mph thanks to the Mulsanne chicanes which keep the top speeds down.

Speeds over 220mph is really a thing of the past that most racing series do not see useful, safe, or helpful to on track racing. Indycars race at Indianapolis with similiar horsepower to sportscars, about 550, and they have similiar top speeds to sportscars at Le Mans, about 215mph. They've found that the racing is just as good at that speed not to mention safer. When they were going 240mph in the mid 90s they lost Scott Brayton who had what looked like a harmless spin into the wall. That extra 20, 25mph can have tragic consequences.

Yes they have raced 220mph on the Mulsanne since the 60s. They also ran past trees with no guardrails in front of them. Theres alot of things in racing that have been done for ages that in hindsight wasn't really the safest or smartest thing to do. NASCAR use to race 220mph at Daytona or Talladega, but they'd never consider doing that again.

If somehow they could keep the prototypes to under 220mph while greatly improving the quality of fencing along the Mulsanne I wouldn't mind seeing the chicanes removed.



If you speed up the prototypes then that opens up a new danger, the closing speeds will be much greater giving GT and LMP drivers less time to react.

Personally I believe the speeds of both GT and LMP cars are fine as they are, they need to work on helping LMP drivers identify the experience level of GT drivers ahead of them.



A GT car could always appear at that point with or without chcianes.

I think you're a bit too hung up on the whole safety issue. Realise that motorracing is inherently dangerous. Wether run at current speeds or '30 mph faster', one will allways be able to put together a scenario in which the speed is too high and the reason for a deadly crash or collision can be put down to high speed.
If we want to ban out this possibillty, we might as well be running races with downtuned Toyota Prius's with large inflated airbags around them...

The current safety standards are bordering on the obsessive while silly 'safety measures' like them ugly fins are being implemented. A feature which clearly helped the Toyota flip over sooner rather then preventing it to get airborne.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by GTfour

.. them ugly fins are being implemented. A feature which clearly helped the Toyota flip over sooner rather then preventing it to get airborne.

Did it? Surely the only thing than can be said is that it didn't stop it flipping over. Other than that we can't tell if it made it flip over or if it stopped it flipping over as much. I don't like them either, but I don't think we can tell what impact it had on the accident. Or maybe it was the holes in the wheel arches that made it flip, or something else we don't like!

[GT6]

or the fact that it clipped another car causing it to verve to the side and allow the air to get under the car i am not an aeronautical person but at that speed a rapid change of direction usually causes things to state rotating

[isynge]

Some interesting observations from social media monitoring firm Radian6 on the way in which people variously tweeted etc about the race over its course.

It's interesting in its own right (flagging up probably what we already know, in that Davidson's crash and the loss of the Delta Wing were high points of interest), but just as intriguing is that they saw this as being a suitably interesting case study of social media to look at - which says a lot about the sort of profile the race managed to build.

http://www.radian6.com/blog/2012/06/le-mans-24-hours-a-social-media-perspective/

[Adam43]

It is up there with Jamie Oliver http://www.radian6.com/blog/2012/06/...-neverseconds/

[Aysedasi]

Yeah, he's entering his own team next year. A car bio-fuelled by leftover chicken nuggets.......

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Yeah, he's entering his own team next year. A car bio-fuelled by leftover chicken nuggets.......

A VW sponsored by Tefal?

[GTfour]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Did it? Surely the only thing than can be said is that it didn't stop it flipping over. Other than that we can't tell if it made it flip over or if it stopped it flipping over as much. I don't like them either, but I don't think we can tell what impact it had on the accident. Or maybe it was the holes in the wheel arches that made it flip, or something else we don't like!

Apart from the fact I don't like these socalled 'ugly solutions', I haven't seen any crash or flip over that was notably safer/slower with these nasty cutaways or aero additives...
The thing is nowadays, that whenever a huge crash occurs, the ruling bodies of motorracing(FIA/ACO/Etc.) just have to implement some silly new monstrocity because oh dear, they might get held responsible for it !
As I stated before, motorracing is inherently dangerous. It is simply impossible to rule out spectacular crashes were cars run at 200+ mph.

[Adam43]

How do you know it was no better with the ugly fin? You have no control sample.

As I said I don't like them, but my challenge here is on the logic. It's the experimental physicist in me.

[the.cosmic.pope]

Originally Posted by isynge

Some interesting observations from social media monitoring firm Radian6 on the way in which people variously tweeted etc about the race over its course.

It's interesting in its own right (flagging up probably what we already know, in that Davidson's crash and the loss of the Delta Wing were high points of interest), but just as intriguing is that they saw this as being a suitably interesting case study of social media to look at - which says a lot about the sort of profile the race managed to build.

http://www.radian6.com/blog/2012/06/le-mans-24-hours-a-social-media-perspective/

The loss of the DeltaWing also coincided with the loss of the remaining Toyota from the battle for the win though, so it's hard to chalk that all up to the DeltaWing. Strange absence of anything DeltaWing related in those charts. Could it be it wasn't as big with people as Mr Cox suggested?