The never ending Toyota return to Le Mans (LMP1) Saga - Page 2

kurski · 17 Jun 2011, 18:23 (Ref:2901073)

Quote:

Originally Posted by 92scotland

Some more info, well probably not more: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92396

Has there been any Toyota driver rumor and would be nice to see the car.

FordCosworthPanoz · 17 Jun 2011, 18:29 (Ref:2901076)

Since the end of the Group C era, my favourite LMP car that ever raced at Le Mans had to be the S102, something about the bodywork and especially the front end of the car was just incredible and had suprising pace relative to the diesels. If Dome could create a car like the S102 without (correct me if i am wrong please) any factory support then I have all the confidence in them that they could develop a successful LMP car with Toyota support.

Im not holding my breath because we have heard these rumours quite a bit, but if it does happen I think this could be huge.

AGD · 17 Jun 2011, 20:55 (Ref:2901125)

Quote:

Originally Posted by johntt

Honda will be back, wherever Toyota go, they follow (and vice versa). Nissan are rumoured to be getting involved as well.

I don't know about Honda coming to LMP1 as a factory team. They could do it very easily, but I just don't get the sense that the people in Japan are super thrilled about it. Honda did not really follow Nissan and Toyota with their previous Le Mans efforts (aside from the GTs from the mid-90s I guess) and they clearly have not followed Toyota into NASCAR and such. But, hey, they have few start up barriers if they did want in.

What I am wondering is when/if we will see Toyota providing engines (or more) for LMP2. Honda/HPD and Nissan/Nismo are already in there and having success. They may even make money off their LMP2 projects. It looks probable that Mazda will jump in next year as well. Of course, perhaps Toyota is questioning whether LMP2 will become a customer arms race of sorts with Judd/BMW and Ford/Roush & Mountune already in and Ferrari on the cusp of entering it seems.

johntt · 18 Jun 2011, 07:14 (Ref:2901257)

I think Honda were on the edge of going for a factory team but then we had the recession in 2008 and the quake earlier this year put the programme back in a big way.

I'm not sure how easily they could put together an works team, after what happened with Highcroft (which was mostly out of HPD's hands) a lot of teams would be wary of tying up with Honda.

re. the following the other I was referring to Honda and Toyota. There were rumours of Honda doing Nascar Trucks a few years ago but they never came to fruition as they wanted to do sportscars.

After the performance of the ARX-01e at Sebring this year I'm 100% sure we'll see the return of Honda to LMP1.

TF110 · 18 Jun 2011, 08:14 (Ref:2901275)

I'm just happy Toyota is serious about LeMans again. I'd say they have unfinished business. The last time they were there, no one had an answer for their pace. If it weren't for accidents and tire issues, the TS020 easily would have won. Toyota realizes this. And the case for a Hybrid type powertrain would definitely be a good thing for PR and sales, especially in Europe.

The Badger · 18 Jun 2011, 09:04 (Ref:2901294)

I never doubted that Toyota were not serious , but also not stupid to enter a series where if couldnt win with the regs the way they were .

Obviously the newer regs appeal to them . Quite possibily , one of the reasons the manufacturers stayed away from the sport was the regs ..... so basically the ACO did kinda shoot themselves in the foot .

Hopefully a lesson can be taken from past mistakes .

JAG · 18 Jun 2011, 13:41 (Ref:2901411)

Quote:

Originally Posted by johntt

I think Honda were on the edge of going for a factory team but then we had the recession in 2008 and the quake earlier this year put the programme back in a big way.

I'm not sure how easily they could put together an works team, after what happened with Highcroft (which was mostly out of HPD's hands) a lot of teams would be wary of tying up with Honda.

After the performance of the ARX-01e at Sebring this year I'm 100% sure we'll see the return of Honda to LMP1.

The ARX-01e may have missed it's window of opportunity, it was planned as an interim car to help development of the With coupe, it's the coupe I'd want if planning a three year WEC program.

If the coupe is on hold you'd have to look at options from Lola, ORECA etc.

JAG · 18 Jun 2011, 13:49 (Ref:2901412)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Badger

I never doubted that Toyota were not serious , but also not stupid to enter a series where if couldnt win with the regs the way they were .

Obviously the newer regs appeal to them . Quite possibily , one of the reasons the manufacturers stayed away from the sport was the regs ..... so basically the ACO did kinda shoot themselves in the foot .

Hopefully a lesson can be taken from past mistakes .

Without going off on a tangent, Audi had little serious competition in the petrol R8 era, Toyota chose F1 when the GT-ONE was the best car in the field.

Regs need to give all technologies an equal chance, but the WEC/ILMC will a more attractive proposition for Toyota, in '99 the FIA GT1 series ended, the ALMS had just started, and there was no Euro ACO series.

Gil Abobeleira · 18 Jun 2011, 14:16 (Ref:2901418)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAG

Without going off on a tangent, Audi had little serious competition in the petrol R8 era, Toyota chose F1 when the GT-ONE was the best car in the field.

Was it?

I remember the BMW's being faster at Le Mans, due to better fuel economy and faster pitstops (not over a lap, obviously).

I also remember Toyota loosing out to the Nissan R391 at the Fuji 1000 Km...

**Aysedasi** · 18 Jun 2011, 14:25 (Ref:2901422)

The Nissan was no competition at all in speed to the GT-ONE at Le Mans, for sure. The Beemers? Difficult to say (as I frankly can't remember!), but the Toyota was the car that many, many people wanted to win. Glorious machine.

Dome S102 · 18 Jun 2011, 14:45 (Ref:2901433)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

The Nissan was no competition at all in speed to the GT-ONE at Le Mans, for sure. The Beemers? Difficult to say (as I frankly can't remember!), but the Toyota was the car that many, many people wanted to win. Glorious machine.

The Beemers with the BMW V12LMR was fast not as fast as the toy but the V12LMR was a far more efficient race car

. Efficient in fuel consumption and also in pitsop.

I was so sad when BMW decide to stop the program and go to F1 with Toy. But now... both have stop F1 and they are back in Le Mans

The Badger · 18 Jun 2011, 16:46 (Ref:2901495)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

but the Toyota was the car that many, many people wanted to win. Glorious machine.

I reckon if they had completed their 3 year plan , they woulda won it .

CTD · 18 Jun 2011, 17:24 (Ref:2901519)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Badger

I reckon if they had completed their 3 year plan , they woulda won it .

Hmm, wasn't the rules changed for 2000?.
Also the arrival of the R8 would have made life very hard for the GT-One.

**Aysedasi** · 18 Jun 2011, 18:48 (Ref:2901557)

Yep. 1999 should have been their year.

JAG · 18 Jun 2011, 19:14 (Ref:2901568)

Quote:

Originally Posted by CTD

Hmm, wasn't the rules changed for 2000?.
Also the arrival of the R8 would have made life very hard for the GT-One.

Same LMP900/LMGTP regs, i.e Bentley.

TF110 · 18 Jun 2011, 23:51 (Ref:2901657)

All they had to do was keep development going and the TS020 would have been on the top step. IIRC wasn't it the BMW that got into the Toyota which caused its tire failure? Maybe not for the finishing car, but I'm sure it had something to do with one of the others, which were all clearly faster than anything out there.

The Badger · 19 Jun 2011, 09:42 (Ref:2901762)

No , it was a BMW , but it was of the last years cars , managed by Dave Price Racing , being driven by Thomas Bsher at the time ..... I bet Totota have fond memories of him .

Nick6 · 19 Jun 2011, 13:40 (Ref:2901855)

Quote:

Originally Posted by CTD

Hmm, wasn't the rules changed for 2000?.
Also the arrival of the R8 would have made life very hard for the GT-One.

To be fair the R8 never really got challenged by any top factory efforts.

Japanese Samurai · 19 Jun 2011, 13:57 (Ref:2901858)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick6

To be fair the R8 never really got challenged by any top factory efforts.

Even so, Schumacher is a great champion.

deggis · 19 Jun 2011, 14:10 (Ref:2901861)

Bad comparison because there was still effort. R8 era lacked both.

Jamesy-18 · 19 Jun 2011, 19:28 (Ref:2902001)

Quote:

Originally Posted by deggis

Bad comparison because there was still effort. R8 era lacked both.

Oh, and at the moment there is, is there? When they're most likely only ever going to get beaten by one other team even on a bad day, such is the advantage of the diesels.

TF110 · 19 Jun 2011, 21:13 (Ref:2902067)

I doubt it. Nissan Toyota and some other man. want in on P1? They must feel pretty confident about their chances. Seeing as how Nissan performed in P2, I guess they figure the next step is worth it. As much as the diesels are spanking the field now. The best other car is from Pescarolo and Rebellion (who run Lola chassis'). Hardly 'factory' efforts. TMG is arguably bigger than Audi and Peugeot's motorsports efforts. They have the facilities and the resources. Now they will put that to the road. I always thought that in F1 they had a reasonable chance if they had some top drivers, but thats another story.

Mal · 20 Jun 2011, 09:11 (Ref:2902257)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

The Nissan was no competition at all in speed to the GT-ONE at Le Mans, for sure. The Beemers? Difficult to say (as I frankly can't remember!), but the Toyota was the car that many, many people wanted to win. Glorious machine.

And the ultimate rendition of a GT ONE 'Road Car!'

trahsub · 20 Jun 2011, 13:26 (Ref:2902381)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TF110

I doubt it. Nissan Toyota and some other man. want in on P1? They must feel pretty confident about their chances. Seeing as how Nissan performed in P2, I guess they figure the next step is worth it. As much as the diesels are spanking the field now. The best other car is from Pescarolo and Rebellion (who run Lola chassis'). Hardly 'factory' efforts. TMG is arguably bigger than Audi and Peugeot's motorsports efforts. They have the facilities and the resources. Now they will put that to the road. I always thought that in F1 they had a reasonable chance if they had some top drivers, but thats another story.

It's strange that McNish didn't have what it takes during his year at Toyota F1 (though it was early on in Toyota's F1 venture), yet he is a fantastic driver at Audi. There are other examples of this out there though, Dario dominating Indy and being terrible at NASCAR. Who knows.

Tom908V12 · 20 Jun 2011, 13:32 (Ref:2902384)

Strange to test with an opened car instead of a coupé though

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