Porsche being assisted by ACO in GT2 for 2009?

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

It was, before it started to get personal - hence the bits I deleted. Remember - 'attack the post - not the poster......'

It never got personal . I am not an Austrian , I just live there.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Creation was a private team with a racecar that was an old Reynard design that they updated from LMP675/LMP1 to an actual LMP1 hybrid and money and time kept them from converting to LMP900/LMP1 tires.

Porsche is in terms of sportscars(road going and racing) a large manufacturer, and they should've been able to make the normal GT2 tries work.

Fine .... private or not ..... they had the same options open to them all ..... or not ?

You say it was an old Reynard design ..... but a very much updated old reynard design too . Please stop kidding yoursrlf .

[chernaudi]

Updated or not, the tub for one of the cars they had was the same one they Reynard built in '02 before they went bankrupt. They had to redesign their car for 2007, and though it was based on the old Reynard design(like the Zytek), they were of new construction and were of an updated design, optimized for the ACO's rules.

As I said, the ACO didn't say that Creation could run LMP2 tires on their car-upgrading it from an old LMP675 car to an LMP1 hybrid, they didn't have the time or money to upgrade to the LMP1 spec tires-ironically, the LMP2 Michelin tires seemed to agree with their car better than the LMP1 Dunlops did.

What I'm trying to say is that Porsche, as a factory, should've had the resources to run the GT2 spec tires and still be successful-and there are still opinions that the RS Spyder absorbed enough resources that Porsche's GT2 teams couldn't make either tires/weight/restrictor setup work in '07-only when Porsche did additional R&D work on the GT3 RSR did it become rightfuly competitive in '08.

[Dead-Eye]

Just to get this straight: Did Porsche ask for special dispensation to run the tires, or was it written in the rules so everyone could choose to do it and take the weight penalty?

[chernaudi]

That's the root of the argument-did Porsche ask for the rules, or did the ACO already have them written for '07?

There was no rule that said that Creation had to run the LMP2 tires on their car in '06 insofar as the max tire width was 16 inches for an LMP1 car-so LMP2 tires could be used by anyone who wanted to. But Creation didn't want to-they ran out of time converting the car from LMP675 to an LMP1 hybrid.

Porsche obviously wanted the wider tires on their car-did the ACO bend to them, or did the ACO have a similar rule already in place?

[makaveli87]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Porsche obviously wanted the wider tires on their car-did the ACO bend to them, or did the ACO have a similar rule already in place?

The rule was already in place. GT1 tires in exchange for a weight penalty, but that weight penalty has been effectively reduced. so they are bending the rules.
One thing to note however is that Porsche only use the GT1 tires in the back but they still received the full weight penalty. this may be the reason for the weight reduction they are receiving.

[Dani Filth]

so what's stopping them using GT1 tyres at the front too ?? .. take full advantage of them .. unless is not an advantage

[makaveli87]

Originally Posted by Dani Filth

so what's stopping them using GT1 tyres at the front too ?? .. take full advantage of them .. unless is not an advantage

i suspect balanced tire ware. the reason they opted for gt1 tires was the fact that the rears wore out quicker.

[NightStalk3r]

Humm, doesnt seem like Porsche are being assisted at all.

"Other regulation changes require that the Porsches run 20 kilograms heavier than 2008, and we have a minimum 15mm gurney (wicker) requirement and a 5mm higher ride height than 2008.

[Dani Filth]

only that ????

[veeten]

then again, there's another corner to think about...

the upcoming BMW M3.

Now, where does this fit in the calculations as far as competitive balance?

Just a thought...

[Félix]

It's not been officially written anywhere, but my understanding is that the new M3 is illegal with the ACO and FIA rules because of it's gearbox placement: they installed a transaxle whereas the road car has its six speed placed directly behind the engine. The ALMS is letting them in as GT2S cars I think...

Not that BMW ever wanted to make their sportscars legal/optimized for all racing series (M3 GTR, 2000 LMR)

[Hugewally]

BMW hopes to change the ACO to allow the car, ie, change the rules.

[HORNDAWG]

Hmm, illegal engine with the addition of steel bore liners to keep the all aluminum block from destructing itself with the larger bore to 4.0L? So I guess the question now is, will this get swept under the rug??





L.P.

[porsche91722]

Not exactly a minor modification. I don't quite understand how its taken this long to be found out.

[MJ_N_09]

Why did this thread get bumped? It was just an attack on other posters waiting to happen.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by MJ_N_09

Why did this thread get bumped? It was just an attack on other posters waiting to happen.

Ah, don't tell me, I'll guess! Porsche fan?!

This thread got bumped for the obvious reason, that this is a significant development and needs to be kept in the light of day and not swept back into the dark recess from which it came! Most here realize this and can have a legitimate discourse on the subject.




L.P.

[Duff_44]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

Just to get this straight: Did Porsche ask for special dispensation to run the tires, or was it written in the rules so everyone could choose to do it and take the weight penalty?

It has been in the rulebook for years. If you run in the lower two weight classes (which are now 1145kg/1195kg) you have to run 12" max rubber. If you run above that (now 1245kg/1295kg/1345kg) you can run the 14" tires. Assuming they were to re-homologate the car at that weight, Ferrari could run 14" tires on the F430. For the record, all the weights shown are 20kg heavier than 2008.

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Hmm, illegal engine with the addition of steel bore liners to keep the all aluminum block from destructing itself with the larger bore to 4.0L? So I guess the question now is, will this get swept under the rug??

Adding sleeves is legal. There are specific rules which allow the machining of the block to add sleeves if the engine does not already come with them. (5.2.3 in the ACO GT2 rulebook for those so inclined)

[GrayWolf]

Originally Posted by Duff_44

It has been in the rulebook for years. If you run in the lower two weight classes (which are now 1145kg/1195kg) you have to run 12" max rubber. If you run above that (now 1245kg/1295kg/1345kg) you can run the 14" tires. Assuming they were to re-homologate the car at that weight, Ferrari could run 14" tires on the F430. For the record, all the weights shown are 20kg heavier than 2008.



Adding sleeves is legal. There are specific rules which allow the machining of the block to add sleeves if the engine does not already come with them. (5.2.3 in the ACO GT2 rulebook for those so inclined)

Then I guess it's ok and Porsche won't be punished :S

[Spyderman]

...and here is the wording of the rule:

5.2.3 – Cylinder heads may be modified by machining, provided
that the original part remains identifiable. The valve tappet
guides may be fitted with sleeves if not originally. The
cylinder block may be modified by machining :
• for the modification of the bore or for sleeving if the
original block is not fitted with sleeves.
• Below the horizontal plane passing through the axle of
the crankshaft bearings for the mounting of the dry
sump.
The oil sump is free and may include the crankshaft bearing
caps.

[arakis]

ok if everything is leagal why is hindy talkink about it, and why has porsche been given a waivur by aco

just listend to andy at le mans series quali http://audio.mpix.org.uk/lms2009/2009_alg_q.mp3 around fifth of the way trough the file, they talk about it, they say its iligal, and that the fia has given porsche the wright to race with the posibility of exclusion from the championships until they make a desision at the end of august

[arakis]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyderman View Post
• for the modification of the bore or for sleeving if the
original block is not fitted with sleeves.
it says you can sleeve it only if the block was not sleeved already and porsches gt3 block is sleeved

from the new gt3 "The cylinder cases are made of a light alloy featuring aluminum, with Nikasil®-coated liners. For improved efficiency, including better fuel economy, the engine's compression ratio was raised to 12.0:1."

I guess those aluminium nikasil liners were not strong enough so they put in steel ones wich is against the rules, the parts must remain original

[Spyderman]

No mention of "sleeve".
Also - relax Arakis, it doesn't give Porsche any performance enhancement. It just strengthens the cylinder casings, thus better engine endurance. As Ferrari has already won all the really long distance races, it wont really make much difference.

[Dario911]

Any improvement in performances, arakis.
Porsche and Ratel hate one each other, and that's the last chapter of a long war. Rathel would not like to see Porsche to win in FIA GT, because Porsche was not agree with Rathel's politics. So, he would not allow to Porsche to win.
Porsche uses this system from the first season of the 997. Three years... and now it's irregular?
Oh, in 2008 Porsche has won two races in FIA GT, but there were other polemics... about suspensions...
All to stop the Porsche.
Why Porsche is not irregular in all the other series???
Does it mean something to your ears?

[Dario911]

The rules are not clear about this point and, so, Porsche has recoursed against FIA decision. Autosprint is a pro-Ferrari magazine, but they are with Porsche in this case.
Does it mean something?