'09 LMS Round 2, Spa May 8th-10th - Page 6

JAG · 9 May 2009, 15:31 (Ref:2458606)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightStalk3r

But the ultimate goal of the new regs was for le mans equality, and last year the gap was larger at le mans than it was at spa, as it stands the gap at le mans would be about 2 seconds a lap or so.

Le Mans is three times the length of the average track, so a two second gap is well within the realms of factory vs privateer pace.

It's not unusual to see more than two seconds difference between team cars at Le Mans.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Félix

Oh yeah, just read the Peugeot pole was made by Simon Pagenaud (not a bad driver at all but his very first race with the car) over ONE single flying lap!

All of the leading cars only ran a flying lap or two, there were two red flags. Oreca said yesterday they could run 2.01.

Félix · 9 May 2009, 16:08 (Ref:2458625)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

Another thing about the Peugeot to consider...the car was running at 920 kgs at Sebring. 30 kgs means they are only adding 10 kgs to the total. So all their talk about testing to see what will break...? Not sure what to make of that.

It's the minimum weight they can run + 30 kilos, not 930 kilos straight. You should know the rules

So they'll probably be at 950 for Le Mans. They must be over-engineered anyways and they're around a ton anyways with fuel, but that tells a lot about their attitude: it's not about rushing to Le Mans and breaking cars by trying too hard to gain a bit of performance. They seem to be hoping that Audi is doing that this year, and they're delighted that the R15 doesn't seem that much faster than them.

BTW Mike, have you seen the Pescarolo front wheel covers I linked earlier in the thread? Very RS Spyder-like...

KA · 9 May 2009, 16:09 (Ref:2458626)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Or maybe they do not want any confusion when the official boys from Ingolstadt come rolling into a paddock in the near future?

L.P.

On the showing so far, I don't think anyone's in danger of confusing the Kolles effort with the factory crew!

From a note in DSC's report of this morning's free practice session, the earth-shattering issue around the Audi logos on the Kolles transporters might have been that they'd been applied too high- new Audi vinyls apparently appeared on the trucks this morning, about 20cm lower than the old ones....

ger80 · 9 May 2009, 16:09 (Ref:2458627)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

Another thing about the Peugeot to consider...the car was running at 920 kgs at Sebring. 30 kgs means they are only adding 10 kgs to the total. So all their talk about testing to see what will break...? Not sure what to make of that.

Think they have to add 30kg. If the basic car is 920kg they have to run 950kg now ...

HORNDAWG · 9 May 2009, 17:28 (Ref:2458676)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ger80

Think they have to add 30kg. If the basic car is 920kg they have to run 950kg now ...

The rule/statement in english seems rather ambiguous.

Quote:

An additional 30 kilos will be added made up of one or more pieces of ballast sealed by the scrutineers. Once the ballast has been removed the car must not weigh less than 900 kilos.

Also, it may seem a stupid question but are we sure there is no ballast already in the front of the car to get better, mechanical grip, balance? And if that were the case then they could just increase the ballasted weight to 930 kilos (+10) and satisfy the wording of the adjustment.

L.P.

MulsanneMike · 9 May 2009, 18:07 (Ref:2458690)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Félix

It's the minimum weight they can run + 30 kilos, not 930 kilos straight. You should know the rules

So they'll probably be at 950 for Le Mans. They must be over-engineered anyways and they're around a ton anyways with fuel, but that tells a lot about their attitude: it's not about rushing to Le Mans and breaking cars by trying too hard to gain a bit of performance. They seem to be hoping that Audi is doing that this year, and they're delighted that the R15 doesn't seem that much faster than them.

BTW Mike, have you seen the Pescarolo front wheel covers I linked earlier in the thread? Very RS Spyder-like...

Yeah, minimum in LMP1 is 900 kgs. 900 + 30, = 930 kgs. Regulation states that with the 30 kgs removed the car can't weigh less than 900 in order to prevent them from making a super light chassis to "eat" that 30 kg addition. So with them weighing in at 920 kgs at Sebring (Audis were dead on 900), they really only giving up 10 kgs.

MulsanneMike · 9 May 2009, 18:10 (Ref:2458691)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

The rule/statement in english seems rather ambiguous.
Also, it may seem a stupid question but are we sure there is no ballast already in the front of the car to get better, mechanical grip, balance? And if that were the case then they could just increase the ballasted weight to 930 kilos (+10) and satisfy the wording of the adjustment.

L.P.

Not ambiguous at all, the Pegueot is homologated to 900 kgs. This isn't 920 + 30 = 950. They can run to 900 if they choose to. At Sebring they came in overweight. So that's simply 900 + 30 = 930.

MulsanneMike · 9 May 2009, 18:13 (Ref:2458693)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ger80

Think they have to add 30kg. If the basic car is 920kg they have to run 950kg now ...

What would keep Peugeot from getting the car down to 900 then adding the 30? Nothing. There's no statement that says the car's weight is frozen and then they have to add the 30 kgs. 930 is the new minimum for LMP1 diesel.

KSM86 · 9 May 2009, 18:20 (Ref:2458695)

bahh ban deisel powered racing cars! problems all over with this. Here in LMS and in wtcc. It dont sound like racing at all. especially the seat in wtcc.

Lola T70 · 9 May 2009, 18:34 (Ref:2458707)

Why would Peugeot be running overweight in Sebring, or how would they be to shed 20 kg in a few weeks? That seems like a full winter development and serious $$$$$$$$$.

Does anyone know their weight in Sebring last year, or at Petit?

HORNDAWG · 9 May 2009, 18:36 (Ref:2458710)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

Not ambiguous at all, the Pegueot is homologated to 900 kgs. This isn't 920 + 30 = 950. They can run to 900 if they choose to. At Sebring they came in overweight. So that's simply 900 + 30 = 930.

I am of the same mind with you in what it means

, but it is ambiguous in that it does not state that the minimum weight for the diesels is 930kg! It says that they will add 30kg, which, by the differing views voiced, shows that it is ambiguous.

L.P.

MulsanneMike · 9 May 2009, 18:36 (Ref:2458711)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lola T70

Why would Peugeot be running overweight in Sebring, or how would they be to shed 20 kg in a few weeks? That seems like a full winter development and serious $$$$$$$$$.

Does anyone know their weight in Sebring last year, or at Petit?

939 at Le Mans last year (average), 920 at Sebring. Note the Sebring cars were rather tired, this from people close to Peugeot ("No point bringing the good stuff to Sebring when we could very well end up wiping it against a wall.").

MulsanneMike · 9 May 2009, 18:39 (Ref:2458714)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

I am of the same mind with you in what it means

, but it is ambiguous in that it does not state that the minimum weight for the diesels is 930kg! It says that they will add 30kg, which, by the differing views voiced, shows that it is ambiguous.

L.P.

I understand from where you're coming from, but let me put it this way; it's Peugeot's fault if they come in over 930 kgs. So in "theory" they'll only be dragging along another 10, if they get their act together. You have to think they will, Le Mans '09 is do or die and Audi just showed up with the R15.

MulsanneMike · 9 May 2009, 19:00 (Ref:2458725)

Thinking about this a little more, don't believe Peugeot's hype about having to test the car at the new weight to make sure things don't break. Sure, they could very well show up way over weight (compared to what we all think it should be). But know they're in a great position having regularly raced over 900 (and look how fast it's been) to show up with a car that is effectively only a "few" kilos over what they have been racing at. Can they find 20 kgs to shed to get back to 900 before heading to 930? Absolutely. And they won't break the bank doing it either. Since its inception, the Peugeot program has never looked particularly "tight" (like a tiger), and the results speak.

Félix · 9 May 2009, 19:32 (Ref:2458742)

The way I've read the rules and seen people talking about them, you have to install 30 kg of ballast and be able to take it out so it can be weighed by the ACO.

And the Peugeot guys don't seem worried about their overweight status and are certainly not talking about taking weight out of the cars like they did last year.

Tom908V12 · 9 May 2009, 21:51 (Ref:2458797)

Can't wait for tomorrow's race

The Badger · 9 May 2009, 23:37 (Ref:2458849)

Quote:

Originally Posted by XJR14/WSC95

DSC are reporting the very bizarre happenings of the Kolles team removing the Audi logos from there transporters.

There back on again now , 200mm lower !!!

dj choc ice · 10 May 2009, 01:15 (Ref:2458863)

looking forward to tomorrows race very much, decided to skip Donington Historic F1 to have a day in, crack open a few beers and watch the race, very excited to see what the new Oreca's can do, a lot of promise in there. Peugeot could very well run away with it, but the petrol battle will be epic, Aston Martin, Oreca, Pescarolo and Zytek.

Question is, how fast would the R15 be round Spa?

JAG · 10 May 2009, 01:22 (Ref:2458864)

My interpretation was the 30kg ballast was ALMS style performance balancing based on Sebring pace, not just a straight reg change dictating the diesel P1 minimum weight is now 930kg.

The diesels will be scrutineered before each race, if the 908 comes in at 920kg, they'll have to run at 950kg, with the ballast placed on the car by the ACO, preventing it being strategically located by the team.

If they come in at 900kg, they'll run at 930kg but if the car again shows the performance advantage seen at Sebring, the ACO would considering upping the ballast once again, if not this season, next.

sceptic · 10 May 2009, 06:25 (Ref:2458897)

Warm-up cancelled due to fog.

HORNDAWG · 10 May 2009, 06:26 (Ref:2458898)

Looks like warm-up has been canceled due to fog!

L.P.

Lola T70 · 10 May 2009, 08:09 (Ref:2458926)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

Can they find 20 kgs to shed to get back to 900 before heading to 930? Absolutely. And they won't break the bank doing it either. Since its inception, the Peugeot program has never looked particularly "tight" (like a tiger), and the results speak.

If they could do that in a few weeks why have they not done it in 3 years?

Unless they decide to race with only 3 wheels or no front splitter I think no team can shed 20 kg's in few weeks.

Anyway, on with the race and see what Oreca can do. They seem to have been quite good this weekend so far.

Tom87 · 10 May 2009, 10:37 (Ref:2459012)

Any idea when the www.race-rally.be stream will start broadcasting?

KSM86 · 10 May 2009, 10:42 (Ref:2459015)

http://www.justin.tv/sportzone04

live coverage here.

Tom87 · 10 May 2009, 10:45 (Ref:2459017)

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSM86

http://www.justin.tv/sportzone04

live coverage here.

Thanks!

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