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Old 9 Dec 2009, 09:59 (Ref:2596547)   #26
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Murphy has a clear picture of what the Audi schedule could look like:
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Though there is no shortage of conflicting stories, Murphy believes both Peugeot (and just possibly Audi) will be at the Paul Ricard test in March, Peugeot (but not Audi) will race at Paul Ricard in April, and both will race at Spa. Audi will test at Sebring the week following the 12 hours, and at Paul Ricard the week after the April LMS race, then contest Spa, Le Mans, and PLM.

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Old 9 Dec 2009, 10:09 (Ref:2596551)   #27
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Murphy also believes that Rockenfeller and Primat will be dropped. Does this mean that Rockenfeller will not do DTM either? That would be strange because Audi announced that they will probably run 9 DTM cars and Kristensen already retired from DTM.

Also strange that Primat is mentioned because he drove for Aston Martin last year. Perhaps he means Fassler?
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Old 9 Dec 2009, 10:48 (Ref:2596563)   #28
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When will Audi realise that racing (especialy Puegoet) is more benificial than testing? Yeah there is more of a risk of crashing, but they can always test after the race.
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Old 9 Dec 2009, 11:04 (Ref:2596575)   #29
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When will Audi realise that racing (especialy Puegoet) is more benificial than testing? Yeah there is more of a risk of crashing, but they can always test after the race.
When they have to money for it!.
Both Audi and Peugeot know that racing the cars gives them more experience than testing, but to race them cost SO much more than testing.
But mainly, the experience received when racing is "fine tuning", because it's problems which only occures when racing others for longer time. To get to that point, you have to test the cars for major problems, and this can only be done under test sessions, as you can't pull your car in every few laps in a race!
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Old 9 Dec 2009, 11:16 (Ref:2596580)   #30
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But isn't the point of winter testing so you can be ready for spring races? Good point on the money, I forget about that little detail sometimes. It just makes me so sad, I'd love to see Audi start the year with Sebring, run full LMS season with a break for Le Mans, then end with Petit (and Asia now I guess?) Or maybe even field 2 cars in the LMS and 1 in the ALMS, or one in each with 2 or 3 for the big international enduros. That's more of a dream than practical reality however.
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Old 9 Dec 2009, 11:30 (Ref:2596588)   #31
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But isn't the point of winter testing so you can be ready for spring races? Good point on the money, I forget about that little detail sometimes. It just makes me so sad, I'd love to see Audi start the year with Sebring, run full LMS season with a break for Le Mans, then end with Petit (and Asia now I guess?) Or maybe even field 2 cars in the LMS and 1 in the ALMS, or one in each with 2 or 3 for the big international enduros. That's more of a dream than practical reality however.
Well winter testing has it's disadvantages, which Audi realized this year (the R15 overheating). But there is limits for how much you can test in 1 month (january). Remember that the R15 is going to be redesigned!, and that takes time.
But the LMP cars in ALMS are going to die, unless Audi and Peugeot are going to race there in 2011!
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Old 9 Dec 2009, 12:04 (Ref:2596608)   #32
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Well can't say this is exciting news, I'm having a hard time getting excited for the upcoming season here in the ALMS and this doesn't help. At the very least Audi seems intent on sticking with their commitment to sports car racing so hopefully for 2011 and on we will see more of the brand that got me into the ALMS in the first place.




Which year/race was this again?
Corvettes won Daytona overall in 2001. This was the same yaer that the Earnhardt's drove them.
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Old 9 Dec 2009, 12:33 (Ref:2596625)   #33
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why not run the 2010 season into Sebring 2011?
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I'd love Audi to race Sebring then take it to Puegoet at the 8h Paul Ricard in April.
I believe the 2011-2012 Le Mans Cup will have that format. The second European race would be first or second 2012 Euro Le Mans date, i.e. Paul Ricard, Spa or Monza (if it finally returns).
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Old 9 Dec 2009, 15:13 (Ref:2596717)   #34
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When they have to money for it!.
Both Audi and Peugeot know that racing the cars gives them more experience than testing, but to race them cost SO much more than testing.
But mainly, the experience received when racing is "fine tuning", because it's problems which only occures when racing others for longer time. To get to that point, you have to test the cars for major problems, and this can only be done under test sessions, as you can't pull your car in every few laps in a race!

The money issue is obviously valid, but many people, me included, think that testing instead of racing before this year's Le Mans cost Audi dear in terms of lack of understanding and reliability compared to Peugeot. Presumably Audi now think they know enough about the R15 not to need to race it much before Le Mans.....
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Old 9 Dec 2009, 15:37 (Ref:2596727)   #35
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The money issue is obviously valid, but many people, me included, think that testing instead of racing before this year's Le Mans cost Audi dear in terms of lack of understanding and reliability compared to Peugeot. Presumably Audi now think they know enough about the R15 not to need to race it much before Le Mans.....
You miss my point .
What i meant is that you have to test a car a certain amount, before you can race test it.
When you race test a car, you have to know that it can run almost properly, because you can't pull the car in every lap, to get data, do some fixing, and so on.
But i disagree with you about Audi "think they know enough about the R15 not to need to race it much before Le Mans". They are going to race at Spa, which doesn't supply the same milage as Sebring, but gives a better impression of Le Mans, so they can prepare more for Le Mans. Also they field 3 cars, instead of 2 at Sebring, so the data amount, will probably be the same.
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Old 9 Dec 2009, 18:06 (Ref:2596809)   #36
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I think you miss mine too, and it was the very essence (IMO) of Audi's failure at Le Mans this year. They did a fair bit of testing and very little racing. Peugeot learned from the more significant racing they did. Audi can test all day and night for weeks on end if they want to, but it won't replace racing against decent competition, overtaking loads of cars, encountering all the dumped oil and other detritus etc. etc. that simply can't be replicated in a test..... You need to test to win, of course, no doubt about that, but it'll never replace the data gained from actually taking on your competition head to head on the track....
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Old 9 Dec 2009, 19:06 (Ref:2596836)   #37
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Murphy also believes that Rockenfeller and Primat will be dropped. Does this mean that Rockenfeller will not do DTM either? That would be strange because Audi announced that they will probably run 9 DTM cars and Kristensen already retired from DTM.

Also strange that Primat is mentioned because he drove for Aston Martin last year. Perhaps he means Fassler?
Wrong Primat.
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Old 9 Dec 2009, 19:09 (Ref:2596840)   #38
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Murphy has a clear picture of what the Audi schedule could look like:
When he posted that - pre-announcement - he didn't know about Silverstone and the Asian round, however. If Audi truly wants to be a full participant in the Intercontinental Cup, they'll need to add another race, though...in the LMS or ALMS, or do two in asia.
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Old 9 Dec 2009, 19:25 (Ref:2596844)   #39
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I think you miss mine too, and it was the very essence (IMO) of Audi's failure at Le Mans this year. They did a fair bit of testing and very little racing. Peugeot learned from the more significant racing they did. Audi can test all day and night for weeks on end if they want to, but it won't replace racing against decent competition, overtaking loads of cars, encountering all the dumped oil and other detritus etc. etc. that simply can't be replicated in a test..... You need to test to win, of course, no doubt about that, but it'll never replace the data gained from actually taking on your competition head to head on the track....
Hmm, let me put it another way, because we miss understand each other .
Let's say Audi scraps the R15, and build a R17 (The R16 being the 2010 DTM). When the designing and and manufacturing of the first car is done, you are going to test the car on a closed track alone, to take out the worst of the "gremlins" of the car, or do you trow it out racing immediately?.

My point being that closed track testing is often done by running a few laps, pitting, where they change-, talk, modify things to improve the car, and make it race-able. When "enough" closed track testing is done, then you'll start to race test the car.
My point from the start was that Audi can't replace the Closed track testing with Race testing, with the R15+, as there probably will be too many "gremlins" in the new design for them to race it properly.

Also, Audi would never race a car they believe isn't ready. It would be too embarrassing.
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Old 9 Dec 2009, 19:25 (Ref:2596845)   #40
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If true, sad to see the loss of Premat. When on form in DTM he looked good, and was combative enough to keep Hamilton honest when they were team mates in GP2. The sort of driver for whom single seaters didn't quite happen but one who could build into a very effective sportscar driver.
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Old 9 Dec 2009, 19:47 (Ref:2596861)   #41
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Hmm, let me put it another way, because we miss understand each other .
Let's say Audi scraps the R15, and build a R17 (The R16 being the 2010 DTM). When the designing and and manufacturing of the first car is done, you are going to test the car on a closed track alone, to take out the worst of the "gremlins" of the car, or do you trow it out racing immediately?.

Agreed

My point being that closed track testing is often done by running a few laps, pitting, where they change-, talk, modify things to improve the car, and make it race-able. When "enough" closed track testing is done, then you'll start to race test the car.

Also agreed.

My point from the start was that Audi can't replace the Closed track testing with Race testing, with the R15+, as there probably will be too many "gremlins" in the new design for them to race it properly.

Like at Le Mans in 2009 then.....

Also, Audi would never race a car they believe isn't ready. It would be too embarrassing.

Like at Le Mans in 2009 then.....
It's actually the same point from different angles, I think......
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Old 9 Dec 2009, 19:56 (Ref:2596865)   #42
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When they have to money for it!.
Both Audi and Peugeot know that racing the cars gives them more experience than testing, but to race them cost SO much more than testing.
But mainly, the experience received when racing is "fine tuning", because it's problems which only occures when racing others for longer time. To get to that point, you have to test the cars for major problems, and this can only be done under test sessions, as you can't pull your car in every few laps in a race!
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It's actually the same point from different angles, I think......
I think your right , we where just not getting each other .
But my original statement, was that you couldn't replace Closed track testing with Race Testing, but that Race testing is something that must come as "extra's" or some kind of "fine tuning".
I was simply arguing a reason why Audi wont race the R15+ at Sebring .
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Old 9 Dec 2009, 20:19 (Ref:2596881)   #43
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Wrong Primat.
So he's talking about a driver whose first name isn't Harold and last name isn't Primat?
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Old 9 Dec 2009, 20:32 (Ref:2596890)   #44
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primat .. premat ... still french
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Old 9 Dec 2009, 20:39 (Ref:2596895)   #45
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While you can't replicate good race experience with a car during a test session, you don't gain anything showing up to a race with a car that isn't for the most part fully prepared. Going out on a limb here but it seems that the r15 is receiving more than the typical winter upgrades and it appears that Audi doesn't feel confident that the car will be ready enough to race come Sebring. Instead they are going to do a bunch of testing to sort the car, and then hit up the race at SPA which frankly makes way more sense if your goal is to win at Lemans.

As a fan it sucks that we won't see them at Sebring, but the racer in me understands why they chose to skip it this year.
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Old 9 Dec 2009, 21:03 (Ref:2596903)   #46
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primat .. premat ... still french
Well, Primat is Swish .
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While you can't replicate good race experience with a car during a test session, you don't gain anything showing up to a race with a car that isn't for the most part fully prepared. Going out on a limb here but it seems that the r15 is receiving more than the typical winter upgrades and it appears that Audi doesn't feel confident that the car will be ready enough to race come Sebring. Instead they are going to do a bunch of testing to sort the car, and then hit up the race at SPA which frankly makes way more sense if your goal is to win at Lemans.

As a fan it sucks that we won't see them at Sebring, but the racer in me understands why they chose to skip it this year.
What you just wrote has all been mentioned earlier.
But Spa, doesn't replace Sebring.
Sebring will always have more prestige in winning that Spa will ever get.
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Old 9 Dec 2009, 23:24 (Ref:2596988)   #47
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primat .. premat ... still french
... a small but significant difference:
Alexandre Prémat: French racing driver, racing in the DTM
Harold Primat: French born, Swiss racing driver, racing in the LMS/24H Le Mans

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Old 10 Dec 2009, 00:48 (Ref:2597045)   #48
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What you just wrote has all been mentioned earlier.
But Spa, doesn't replace Sebring.
Sebring will always have more prestige in winning that Spa will ever get.

What does prestige have to do with how they choose to develop the car? Lemans has more than both and as that is the goal of Audi. They won Sebring last year, and we know how well that worked for them at Lemans so it's not unreasonable for them to change their plan of attack.
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Old 10 Dec 2009, 08:18 (Ref:2597144)   #49
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I still haven't seen anywhere where Audi have categorically said they WONT be doing Sebring. If they are planning to test at Sebring immediately after the 12H then they are expecting to have the car built so maybe they are waiting to see how early testing goes before making a decision.

After all they still have announce at least one other race entry to qualify for LMIC.
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Old 10 Dec 2009, 12:29 (Ref:2597251)   #50
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Plus, if Audi won't physically beable to race Sebring, but test the week after, then why not just attend the official LMS tests at Paul Ricard, then do the 8h race instead of testing after it. I think Audi is still unsure weather they'll have a race-ready R15+ and aren't saying they'll be there or not be there. Hopefully we'll see them at the ALMS winter tests at Sebring in Febuary.
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