The never ending Toyota return to Le Mans (LMP1) Saga - Page 102

gwyllion · 23 Apr 2012, 23:13 (Ref:3064572)

In 1999 Toyota could have gone to the 12 hours of Sebring like Audi and BMW, but they did not.

TF110 · 23 Apr 2012, 23:24 (Ref:3064574)

They raced Fuji in 99 but lost overall to the Nissan R391.

gwyllion · 23 Apr 2012, 23:31 (Ref:3064578)

The discussion is about the lack of racing as preparation for Le Mans? The 1000 km of Fuji (November 1999) was after Le Mans (June 1999), whereas the 12 hours of Sebring (March 1999) was before Le Mans.

tyronnezx · 24 Apr 2012, 02:56 (Ref:3064612)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwyllion

In 1999 Toyota could have gone to the 12 hours of Sebring like Audi and BMW, but they did not.

yeah Audi did go there. but failed to beat Toyota a few months later.i believe thats the point that TF110 is making. Toyota went with apparently "no prep" and still beat Audi at le mans. hence , i dont think Toyota's abscence at sebring is a biggie. just because you went there doesnt mean Lemans will be given in a silver platter. i have no doubt that the Ts030 will be fast. just how fast and reliable is questionable

gwyllion · 24 Apr 2012, 05:25 (Ref:3064639)

You found the result of Sebring 1999. Yet you ignore that BMW won Sebring before winning Le Mans that year. I am not saying that testing in racing condition is a requirement, but it shows that racing is very valuable as preperation.

In 1999 Toyota was in its second year with the car, while Audi was in its first year. That is a huge difference.

Furthermore only the Audi R8R made its race debut in Sebring and the R8C was not ready. We all know how that panned out at Le Mans.

TF110 · 24 Apr 2012, 08:44 (Ref:3064722)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwyllion

The discussion is about the lack of racing as preparation for Le Mans? The 1000 km of Fuji (November 1999) was after Le Mans (June 1999), whereas the 12 hours of Sebring (March 1999) was before Le Mans.

I wasn't saying Fuji was a preparation for LeMans. Of course I know it was after it. You said they didn't do Sebring, I'm just saying they did another race, Fuji, but it was after the 24hr race. There wasn't any linking to it, just mentioning the only other race the car took part in. And to be fair, didn't BMW win because the final Toyota was involved in an incident- with a BMW?!

Lot's of 'what ifs', there's no reason to dwell on it. Lets see how they do at the test day.

gwyllion · 24 Apr 2012, 11:57 (Ref:3064822)

Quote:

Originally Posted by deggis

http://www.lemans.org/en/races/fia-w...elon_6748.html

Vasselon:

Quote:

Our progress is currently stalled. We have only one chassis available and we will not receive the second until late April, which does not allow us to build a new car for 6 Hours of Spa-Francorchamps.

"We have lost almost all of April and the only race that allowed us to prepare the 24 Hours of Le Mans. Two test sessions were scheduled in April. We will schedule two, possibly three, sessions in May, but nothing replaces the race. We will do our best to be prepared. "

According to http://twitter.com/#!/JAGLeMans/stat...16317516337152 Toyota plans to do two endurance tests and one performance test before Le Mans.

tyronnezx · 24 Apr 2012, 12:37 (Ref:3064847)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwyllion

You found the result of Sebring 1999. Yet you ignore that BMW won Sebring before winning Le Mans that year.

They Did win. but purely on luck. if Toyota wasnt Unlucky they would have eaten that BMW for lunch. didnt a BMW put the charging Toyota out as well? how ironic....

Acid09 · 24 Apr 2012, 14:01 (Ref:3064901)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyronnezx

They Did win. but purely on luck. if Toyota wasnt Unlucky they would have eaten that BMW for lunch. didnt a BMW put the charging Toyota out as well? how ironic....

Long and hard debates about Le Mans 2010 in here taught me that there is no such thing as a lucky win in endurance racing...you either win or you don't and BMW did.

Toyota had the speed but not the reliability. The third car wan't "put out", it had a puncture. And the two others dropped out beforehand as well, it's not like they only had one bullet in the race.

CTD · 24 Apr 2012, 14:45 (Ref:3064940)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyronnezx

They Did win. but purely on luck. if Toyota wasnt Unlucky they would have eaten that BMW for lunch. didnt a BMW put the charging Toyota out as well? how ironic....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acid09

Long and hard debates about Le Mans 2010 in here taught me that there is no such thing as a lucky win in endurance racing...you either win or you don't and BMW did.

Toyota had the speed but not the reliability. The third car wan't "put out", it had a puncture. And the two others dropped out beforehand as well, it's not like they only had one bullet in the race.

Exactly. Any one who knows a little Le Mans history, knows this.

alexkiller8 · 24 Apr 2012, 14:57 (Ref:3064944)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acid09

Long and hard debates about Le Mans 2010 in here taught me that there is no such thing as a lucky win in endurance racing...you either win or you don't and BMW did.

Toyota had the speed but not the reliability. The third car wan't "put out", it had a puncture. And the two others dropped out beforehand as well, it's not like they only had one bullet in the race.

are you sure that le mans 2010 for peugeot was about unluck?

i think that if you use a wrong engine set-up for a 24h race or build the engines with defective parts that can't let you finish the race, you can't blame the fate for the fail.
Also toyota gt-one shown problems on tyres in 1998 but they apparenty didn't enough to solve the problem, losing again in 1999, so here is a luck/unluck matter too?

The Badger · 24 Apr 2012, 15:11 (Ref:3064951)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyronnezx

They Did win. but purely on luck. if Toyota wasnt Unlucky they would have eaten that BMW for lunch. didnt a BMW put the charging Toyota out as well? how ironic....

BMW won Le Mans on luck too ..... but the history books never mention luck .

The Badger · 24 Apr 2012, 15:12 (Ref:3064954)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyronnezx

They Did win. but purely on luck. if Toyota wasnt Unlucky they would have eaten that BMW for lunch. didnt a BMW put the charging Toyota out as well? how ironic....

Yes , but that was Thomas Bsher driving his private BWM , and not a works entry .

TF110 · 24 Apr 2012, 21:38 (Ref:3065166)

I read that tweet from JAG late last night, I wasn't sure if he was a credible source or not. So I'm glad you put it up! I take it he is in the know. Performance test would mean what exactly? Also where the tests will be if other than Paul Ricard?

tyronnezx · 24 Apr 2012, 22:02 (Ref:3065178)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Badger

Yes , but that was Thomas Bsher driving his private BWM , and not a works entry .

surely some team orders went there too. qite likely to be influenced by Bmw?

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Badger

BMW won Le Mans on luck too ..... but the history books never mention luck .

Fair Point

Quote:

Originally Posted by TF110

I read that tweet from JAG late last night, I wasn't sure if he was a credible source or not. So I'm glad you put it up! I take it he is in the know. Performance test would mean what exactly? Also where the tests will be if other than Paul Ricard?

im sure they will still go ahead with euro speedway and aragon? paul ricard might still be here too

Mal · 28 Apr 2012, 14:03 (Ref:3066541)

As I have said before it is more and more apparent Toyota have largely stuck to the original plan and the 'entry into WEC' was a soundbite to help the ACO.

tyronnezx · 30 Apr 2012, 03:29 (Ref:3067236)

did anyone notice new sponsors popping up on the Toyota Page? one very interesting one i havent seen before was Advics. these guys are a brake component firm and are fairly new to the game. i dunno about their experience in the endurance field but heres hoping that Toyota isnt on a roll to replace all the european and american but most importantly, well established manufacturers with up and coming japanese firms. the one in question here is Brembo - quite an obvious choice for motorsports brakes. im all up for promoting homegrown talent but jesus, switching camps this late adds more unexplained variables to the already custard of a scenario toyota finds itself in

Articus · 30 Apr 2012, 04:10 (Ref:3067243)

Brembo isnt neccesarily the only major brake company. I know that AP racing does brakes for many teams as well.

gwyllion · 30 Apr 2012, 06:05 (Ref:3067250)

No need to worry. Toyota uses Brembo brakes.

Quote:

Some european suppliers can be found on the car Staubli, Brembo and Ole Buhl for example but most of the car is made in house by TMG or outsourced to Japanese firms.

source: http://www.racecar-engineering.com/n...brid-revealed/

TF110 · 30 Apr 2012, 06:18 (Ref:3067252)

Daihatsu is a Sponsor, as is Hino. These aren't supporting the car with anything. They are Toyota owned companies. The company you are speaking of is perhaps a supplier to their road cars for regenerative braking systems. If you do a little research you see that they are apart of Aisin which is one of their hybrid partners and is owned by Toyota. So basically Toyota may own apart of or all of this company.

Simmi · 30 Apr 2012, 08:10 (Ref:3067286)

Shakedown for the new chassis confirmed at Magny-Cours on May 4, exactly one month since the first car was written off.

http://www.toyotahybridracing.com/to...ack-in-action/

NelisB · 30 Apr 2012, 09:33 (Ref:3067329)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simmi

Shakedown for the new chassis confirmed at Magny-Cours on May 4, exactly one month since the first car was written off.

http://www.toyotahybridracing.com/to...ack-in-action/

That's a pretty nice achievement, hope they don't have anymore problems now. I'm very very much looking forward to seeing the car at Le Mans. I really hope they can bring it to Audi this year.

Coopz21 x · 30 Apr 2012, 10:28 (Ref:3067357)

so does anyone think that the paint scheme they are running now is the one they are gonna use?

gwyllion · 30 Apr 2012, 11:55 (Ref:3067403)

It toke Toyota a month to build a new car, of which the manufacturing process had already started. So it will probably be though to build the second car in time for the Le Mans test day. Let us hope that they can finish it in time.

The Badger · 30 Apr 2012, 13:01 (Ref:3067447)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwyllion

No need to worry. Toyota uses Brembo brakes.

source: http://www.racecar-engineering.com/n...brid-revealed/

Looks like AP Racing to me .

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