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Old 1 Sep 2011, 00:44 (Ref:2949175)   #101
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MulsanneMike tweeted this tonight:

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Toyota LMP project update: no change, no decision. The amnt of $$$ pumped into this project nothing short of staggering for no decision.
To me, executives make decisions by spending money. This doesn't appear to be the case with Toyota. Are they really happy to spend money without the PR benefit of running races?
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Old 1 Sep 2011, 00:52 (Ref:2949177)   #102
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Audi Racer has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
But at the same time. this isnt just any company. Its Toyota. they have enough cash to solve world hunger, cause world peace, and deliver Christmas presents to all the children in the world.

at most other car companies this wouldnt be allowed to happen.

that doesnt mean theyr not being foolish though. the fans want to see it. and ill buy a toyota camry and prius if i have to jsut to make them go back to LMP1
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Old 1 Sep 2011, 06:22 (Ref:2949226)   #103
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No decision officially, but behind the scenes who knows what's going on? Not even Mike knows. The amount of money put into it has to be for a reason. They must have something special going on. On top of it, you have to set up a team, people, logistics, drivers etc. When Toyota do something it's not half ass. So I expect them to be on pace as soon as they enter.
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Old 1 Sep 2011, 13:34 (Ref:2949430)   #104
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No decision officially, but behind the scenes who knows what's going on? Not even Mike knows. The amount of money put into it has to be for a reason. They must have something special going on. On top of it, you have to set up a team, people, logistics, drivers etc. When Toyota do something it's not half ass. So I expect them to be on pace as soon as they enter.
I'm wondering if they are holding out until 2014 when the new regs come out.
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Old 1 Sep 2011, 14:13 (Ref:2949444)   #105
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Pouring money, testing, keeping a very big team of very talented people for a car that Toyota's top brass won't release. What can they be waiting for??? The chassis is probably not the biggest problem, but the powertrain (and the secrecy) come from Japan and they probably feel it's not ready. They could run a non-optimal solution (a good petrol engine with no or basic KERS) to get up to speed, but I guess the rules make a victory too unlikely for Toyota and their standards.

Oh well, the racing behind Audi and Peugeot is so amazing, we don't need a serious manufacturer with different technology now. 2014-2015 will be amazing. Or maybe 2016.
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Old 1 Sep 2011, 20:03 (Ref:2949580)   #106
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Thats what I believe. Toyota/Lexus is waiting for the right time with the right rules to enter. 2014 possibly is that time. I seriously hope they will enter to P1 and show Audi/Peugeot/Porsche they can play with the big boys.
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Old 1 Sep 2011, 23:28 (Ref:2949679)   #107
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Also, their LFA just set a lap time of less than 7:14, if this is any indication of what they're capable of- their race car in GTE could be a real threat as well as electric technology for an LMP project.
I read the GTE had been mouthballed, the P1 has been inspected by the ACO but logic would suggest 2014 is the target.

The engine deal with Lola gives them a foot in the door until then.
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Old 2 Sep 2011, 19:54 (Ref:2950080)   #108
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Where did you read that at? And what are you saying? They stashed it away for good or just for now? I read it was a test mule and that further modifications to the car are going on behind the scenes. Did you come to a different conclusion?
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Old 2 Sep 2011, 20:14 (Ref:2950094)   #109
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I really don't understand the Japanese way of thinking. If they have a car that is ready to be raced, why not enter in 2012 or 2013 to get some valuable data for a new car in 2014?

We´ve seen many times in the past that Le Mans can't be simulated, you have to be there to get the data needed to make a car quick.

If they have a car ready, the majority of money for this is already spent! How much can it cost to put a few drivers in there and race the damn thing? Make it a low-key approach with not much money spent on promotion and stuff like that... just to get the experience.

Coming in in 2014 facing Audi and Peugeot with all their experience plus Porsche, using a brand new car... that will be a tall order.
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Old 2 Sep 2011, 20:54 (Ref:2950115)   #110
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But then why design a car and race it next year or the year after for it to be obsolete within a year or two due to rules changes?

That is the issue with the ACO and the FIA appealing to and appeasing manufacturers, who want and like 3 year programs, so the ACO often changes rules every three years and that doesn't stop them from making major changes in the middle of those 3 years. Like the skid height increase to 25mm/1 inch from the ALMS Baltimore round onwards, combined with a louver area increase for the front fenders and a request for teams to run rear fender louvers, with the rules makers insisting that teams run them for next year.

This means that Audi and Peugeot will have to modify the bodywork on their cars for at least the third time the year, and ironically according to Mulsanne Mike's page when he talked about the IMSA Competition Bulletin that mentioned these changes, the came about after Peugeot suggested such changes to the ACO and the FIA in response to their own private investigation into their testing accidents.

For Audi and Peugeot or any other factory team, these changes are merely an inconvenience that's a drop in the ocean for their budgets. But how will the private teams respond, namely those that have narrow budgets?

Unless it's a safety issue that effect more than one type of car, the ACO should leave it up to the teams to ensure the safety of their men and machines, but then again, the FIA took a hands off approach in the '60s, '70s, and much of the '80s, and we know where that got us.

That's about the only good thing about how NASCAR has run things with the COT and to an extent the early common template cars--they may've become generic and bland, but at least the teams don't whine and b.... about one manufacturer having an advantage, and has cut down significantly on in-season rules changes. And it's the in-season rules changes I feel that hurt smaller teams, and also is what's keeping the other factories away, aside from the 3 year plan deal and that 2012 and '13 is too late for that when they can work for '14.
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Old 3 Sep 2011, 15:28 (Ref:2950312)   #111
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I really don't understand the Japanese way of thinking. If they have a car that is ready to be raced, why not enter in 2012 or 2013 to get some valuable data for a new car in 2014?

We´ve seen many times in the past that Le Mans can't be simulated, you have to be there to get the data needed to make a car quick.

If they have a car ready, the majority of money for this is already spent! How much can it cost to put a few drivers in there and race the damn thing? Make it a low-key approach with not much money spent on promotion and stuff like that... just to get the experience.

Coming in in 2014 facing Audi and Peugeot with all their experience plus Porsche, using a brand new car... that will be a tall order.
When a major manufactuer enters you cannot do it in a low key manner.

For Toyota they could finalise the concept/design in 2012, test in 2013 before competing the following year, not too disimilar to Porsche's program.

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Where did you read that at? And what are you saying? They stashed it away for good or just for now? I read it was a test mule and that further modifications to the car are going on behind the scenes. Did you come to a different conclusion?
It was mentioned in a Speed chat the program has been mouthballed, no timeframe.
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Old 5 Sep 2011, 11:59 (Ref:2951123)   #112
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Dome's building suffered the damage of typhoon Talas.
The roof was destroyed because of the typhoon.
This is the photo of the design room that suffered damage.
PC data seems to be safe.
http://lockerz.com/s/136006787
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Old 5 Sep 2011, 14:12 (Ref:2951205)   #113
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Dome's building suffered the damage of typhoon Talas.
The roof was destroyed because of the typhoon.
This is the photo of the design room that suffered damage.
PC data seems to be safe.
http://lockerz.com/s/136006787
Will this have any effect on their current projects?
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Old 4 Oct 2011, 02:48 (Ref:2965256)   #114
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http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newssept11.html
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We're hearing noise out of Toyota to expect an announcement regarding the LMP1 program within the month. We're told to expect an announced assault on Le Mans for 2013. This certainly is welcome news. The Toyota Le Mans preparation is one of the worst kept secrets in motorsports. Especially considering all the motorsports personnel who were called back to beaver away on projects unknown. Ultimately the timing seems a bit odd considering the changing regulations coming on line for 2014 and all the effort that has already gone into this project to date. Surely Toyota would be ready for 2012? On 2012 there seems to be some ambiguity for now. Regardless, Toyota is coming. No technical details are forthcoming. More when/if we hear.
On Twitter Mike first said WEC for 2012 but cancelled it: http://twitter.com/#!/mulsannescorner
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Old 4 Oct 2011, 03:21 (Ref:2965271)   #115
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^ Yesss!!
I wonder where that leaves Rebellion for their engine situation? No change I assume?
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Old 4 Oct 2011, 03:32 (Ref:2965276)   #116
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I wonder where that leaves Rebellion for their engine situation? No change I assume?
What would stop them of using Rebellion the same way Audi uses Joest?
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Old 4 Oct 2011, 04:03 (Ref:2965281)   #117
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MulsanneMike said (here, but months ago) that the engine deal would be separate operation.
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Old 4 Oct 2011, 04:05 (Ref:2965283)   #118
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^ Yesss!!
I wonder where that leaves Rebellion for their engine situation? No change I assume?
Perhaps they would remain as engine customers. Anyway, if you read Mike's Twitter feed, he says that Rebellion is expecting a performance step from the Toyota engines next year.

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What would stop them of using Rebellion the same way Audi uses Joest?
Maybe, but I don't know. This is no knock against the Rebellion guys because they have done some good work bringing some new stuff to the track, but I don't think one can compare Rebellion to Joest Racing. We'll have to see what the plan is once/if things are announced. You really never know what is going on at Toyota.
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Old 4 Oct 2011, 05:15 (Ref:2965301)   #119
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The Toyota engine is from F-Nippon and SuperGT. I'm sure there's some modifications to it, but it's really not a purpose built LeMans engine. If they are going to modify it further for Rebellion or perhaps redesign it, I'm sure it'll be stronger and more reliable. Aside from that and concerning the big news, this is great. Me being a huge Toyota fan, I am ecstatic to learn more and just to hear news like this. Much thanks for sharing!
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Old 4 Oct 2011, 06:15 (Ref:2965316)   #120
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Great to hear, I just hope this isnt another false hope (not knocking Mulsanne Mike, you are a trusted source of information its just that Toyota seems to a bit backwards in coming forward about this over the last few years). I've gotten my hopes up before, Im hoping Toyota just come out with it.

I see Rebellion as a B team IMHO and certainly not a factory operation but certainly good support for the factory cars.
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Old 4 Oct 2011, 07:36 (Ref:2965344)   #121
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I think there is a possibility that Toyota are going to use Rebellion as a partner. They already have a solid team structure and decent drivers where they can build up on. besides that I think Toyota would want some sponsor to take over some of the cost, all be it very little of the overall cost.
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Old 4 Oct 2011, 07:57 (Ref:2965353)   #122
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I think there is a possibility that Toyota are going to use Rebellion as a partner. They already have a solid team structure and decent drivers where they can build up on. besides that I think Toyota would want some sponsor to take over some of the cost, all be it very little of the overall cost.
It could be. It would certainly be great to see a factory go the route that Acura did a few years ago. That would be remarkable and we still see the fruits of that type of organization a few years after Acura pulled their money. I just get the feeling that it will be another quirky in-house Toyota effort. Which house that is will be determined I guess, but I guess it would be TTE (or whatever they call themselves now). They may even go Le Mans only to try to keep some secrets and try to surprise everyone in June. It's very hard to get a sense of what Toyota has up their sleeve, but if it is a full factory program, I'd imagine it would be done the Toyota way.

Perhaps Rebellion could be Toyota's "Champion" or something where they race in other championships or what not. I guess we will have to find out. You never know what Toyota is thinking. All things can point one direction, but they may do something totally different. You would have to think that redemption is on their mind and that they are going to create something worth talking about. I would think that hybrids are almost assured, but what kind of hybrid? Toyota could actually make a Prius cool here if they know what they are doing.
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Old 4 Oct 2011, 08:34 (Ref:2965371)   #123
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It could be. It would certainly be great to see a factory go the route that Acura did a few years ago. That would be remarkable and we still see the fruits of that type of organization a few years after Acura pulled their money. I just get the feeling that it will be another quirky in-house Toyota effort. Which house that is will be determined I guess, but I guess it would be TTE (or whatever they call themselves now). They may even go Le Mans only to try to keep some secrets and try to surprise everyone in June. It's very hard to get a sense of what Toyota has up their sleeve, but if it is a full factory program, I'd imagine it would be done the Toyota way.

Perhaps Rebellion could be Toyota's "Champion" or something where they race in other championships or what not. I guess we will have to find out. You never know what Toyota is thinking. All things can point one direction, but they may do something totally different. You would have to think that redemption is on their mind and that they are going to create something worth talking about. I would think that hybrids are almost assured, but what kind of hybrid? Toyota could actually make a Prius cool here if they know what they are doing.
Haha I doubt they will use the prius brand to go racing, but just like you said. You never know.
I really hope they also lease some customer cars to rebellion if they don't decide to use them. I really like the rebellion effort some how. They just seem to get things right.
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Old 4 Oct 2011, 09:25 (Ref:2965407)   #124
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The official Toyota team will probably run under their own banner, and not shared with Rebellion, as they that way could claim possible victories to themselves.
Much like Peugeot not choosing to partner with Pescarolo.
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Old 4 Oct 2011, 09:45 (Ref:2965419)   #125
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TMG is big enough do it in-house but if they ended up doing it the other way I seriously wouldn't expect the team to be "Rebellion Racing" without Toyota in the name. Rebellion is a watch maker, remember.
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