Testing! Testing! - Page 4

foreversideways · 16 Nov 2007, 11:29 (Ref:2068781)

Massa says the cars are undriveable, unsafe, that there will be more accidents and that he was rubbish because he has no experience without traction control.

He says the accelerator is like a button and that you need to be very soft with it. Some of us here will remember Jackie Stewarts description of the accelerator, before the advent of traction control that is. "Treat it like a tap and not a switch".

JohnSSC · 17 Nov 2007, 01:33 (Ref:2069309)

...and Massa was also fastest on day 3, with the fastest overall time. I reckon he adjusted relatively quickly...

Marbot · 17 Nov 2007, 01:38 (Ref:2069314)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

...and Massa was also fastest on day 3, with the fastest overall time. I reckon he adjusted relatively quickly...

Well,it wasn't raining and it sure as hell ain't Monaco!

vs346 · 17 Nov 2007, 05:00 (Ref:2069366)

Speaking of Monaco, we could have a verrrry interesting race there in 2008 with no T/C. Something like a Panis winning in 1997. I for one am glad the T/C is gone.

JohnSSC · 17 Nov 2007, 11:50 (Ref:2069490)

True, but I think folks are being way too harsh with the younger drivers here. These guys have logged thousands of kilometers driving in both test and race conditions utilizing TC. Whether one likes TC or not, they have had to drive the cars as fast as possible which means utilizing the TC.

The adjustment process will take some time. I am sure most of them will be much more used to things by the end of winter testing. Keep in mind that they all have come up through the ranks using only their right foot for "traction control."

**Bononi** · 17 Nov 2007, 12:59 (Ref:2069536)

Just think about Fuji this year without the traction control...

I guess Mark Webber has a thought about it...

JohnSSC · 17 Nov 2007, 15:52 (Ref:2069597)

It will definitely make things more interesting!

Although I think that in cases like Fuji, the Stewards will be far more likely to throw a Red Flag due to the conditions. We have gotten a bit spoiled ourselves as TC has raised the threshold for canceling/delaying a race due to weather.

Should we have another "Fuji" next season I think you will see the Red Flag before you see much racing.

JeremySmith · 17 Nov 2007, 15:56 (Ref:2069598)

Which makes sense to me. Racing in those conditions seems pointless to be honest..

JohnSSC · 17 Nov 2007, 15:58 (Ref:2069601)

When it is that bad, it is pointless for sure. I don't think it demonstrates anything even with the drivers as you can't adjust them before the race like you used to be able to do (you know: full soft settings, etc) as they are in parc ferme now. A bit of wing adjustment at the first pit stop and that is it.

i don't think we get a clear picture of who is "good" in those conditions as a car with a crappy chassis might be "accidentally" faster, not necessarily driven better, if you get my drift.

Marbot · 17 Nov 2007, 16:12 (Ref:2069607)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

i don't think we get a clear picture of who is "good" in those conditions as a car with a crappy chassis might be "accidentally" faster, not necessarily driven better, if you get my drift.

Because of the parc ferme rules,it is just as important now to know what the weather will be doing as it is to know how to set up the car.

In qualifying for the Japanese GP many cars were set up differently in anticipation of the weather that had been forecast for the day after.Some got it right and some got it wrong.

JeremySmith · 17 Nov 2007, 16:19 (Ref:2069610)

Well in those conditions it strikes me that the race is run to satisfy contractual issues more than anything else..Some of the drivers deal with the conditions better than others of course, some have more experience of racing during monsoon type rainfall..MS was always great in the wet as is RB.. I agree with the rest of your post, it can be a anyone's race in a way if you can last the distance..

**Peter Mallett** · 17 Nov 2007, 16:38 (Ref:2069618)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

It will definitely make things more interesting!

Although I think that in cases like Fuji, the Stewards will be far more likely to throw a Red Flag due to the conditions. We have gotten a bit spoiled ourselves as TC has raised the threshold for canceling/delaying a race due to weather.

Should we have another "Fuji" next season I think you will see the Red Flag before you see much racing.

I stand to be corrected here but IMO, and from experience, the problems in wet conditions are related to braking not accelerating, thus TC has no bearing on red flags under wet conditions.Go in too fast and TC won't stop you spinning. Hit the brakes too hard and you understeer into the boonies.

foreversideways · 17 Nov 2007, 17:03 (Ref:2069634)

As long as cars are not aquaplaning and there is enough visibility i see no problem with racing in poor weather. It clearly requires delicate control of throttle, brakes and steering. After all it's not a 200+MPH oval where it is clearly impossible to run on a wet track, it's a road circuit.

**Peter Mallett** · 17 Nov 2007, 17:08 (Ref:2069636)

Yup.

jab · 17 Nov 2007, 17:17 (Ref:2069641)

I'm not sure if I agree with calling it off in Fuji-style conditions. It wasn't as bad as we've had before. Just look at the wet races of about 10 years ago - Spain 96, Monaco 97, Spa 97 etc

JeremySmith · 17 Nov 2007, 17:26 (Ref:2069649)

I remember one Australian Grand Prix which was a torrential downpour, Senna called that race if my memory serves me. The officials red flagged it...

**Peter Mallett** · 17 Nov 2007, 17:31 (Ref:2069654)

That was the race where Senna ran into the back of Brundle's Ligier(?).

JeremySmith · 17 Nov 2007, 18:47 (Ref:2069689)

Ohh I am not sure Peter? It was Adelaide that I do know, I'm not much of a historian..

jab · 17 Nov 2007, 19:07 (Ref:2069700)

Adelaide 1991. Shortest F1 WC race ever

JeremySmith · 17 Nov 2007, 19:08 (Ref:2069702)

There you go thank you jab!

**Bononi** · 17 Nov 2007, 20:16 (Ref:2069750)

There was a corner where most drivers crashed the barrier.

JohnSSC · 17 Nov 2007, 22:35 (Ref:2069833)

I agree that braking is the first place one will have problems in the wet. Having had some experience as well racing in the rain, I would imagine that driving a car with 700 HP+ on tap in a downpour such as they had in Fuji would be interesting under acceleration, with or without traction control. Rolling on the throttle, however gently, as one crosses the apex could still result in some interesting slip angles.

Just as ABS is not always superior to other braking methods, such as threshold braking, TC is not a cure-all.

Like I said, I think it raised the threshold regarding the limit at which a Red Flag will be shown, but it is just one of many variables, including the grip available with the rain tyre being used.

JeremySmith · 17 Nov 2007, 22:40 (Ref:2069835)

Of course you can just drive , run off the track and have your own personal crane driver to lift you up and plop you onto the track again..in the right direction of course.

JohnSSC · 17 Nov 2007, 23:02 (Ref:2069846)

When all else fails, a friendly crane driver is never a bad thing to have "in your corner!"

Marbot · 17 Nov 2007, 23:49 (Ref:2069866)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

When all else fails, a friendly crane driver is never a bad thing to have "in your corner!"

Are there no friendly Chinese crane drivers ?

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