The Good ol' days - Page 3

Shangry-La · 22 Aug 2004, 00:07 (Ref:1074035)

Well, matey - you're certainly getting the drift (naturally, no ironic pun intended!)...

oziengineer · 22 Aug 2004, 05:18 (Ref:1074099)

The quality of competition seemed to take a nosedive in 1999. All the time before that, the racing was exquisite. ALthough I wasn't even alive at the time, I must say that the old days of F1 was the most interesting in many areas. Seeing pictures of Gilles Villeneuve holding a slide through a corner with the left rear coming off is something that made the sport great.

Sato san · 22 Aug 2004, 06:22 (Ref:1074107)

i AGREE ...

You take Mansell and his team mate Piquet ...wow !...that was great stuff watching all that devleop in years gone by , Mansell pushed Piquet so damm hard at times , produced some fantastic cometition....They raced !!!

I remember racing . does anyone else , it was a great sport ...the idea of it is for anyone who isnt too sure....Is that one driver trys his hardest to overtake the driver ahead using all his skill and car control ( and maybe the odd cheeky manouver ) ....

or i suppose yopu could just wait for the pitstops to come and hope they change your tyres quicker like happens nowdays .

I have to say i still like F1 alot ...the car speeds are awesome ....but in all honesty , if it wasnt for drivers like Mansell etc etc that gave me my love for the sport ...would i start watching now for the 1st time...i dont think so .

Hopefully with young terriers like Davidson , Raikonnen , Massa , Sato...JPM , even Villeneuve ( if he comes back ) ...and some decent new regulations ....oh , and some actual Racing to watch again ...its looking better on the horizon...

Knowlesy · 22 Aug 2004, 12:00 (Ref:1074312)

Yep....the future can only be brighter!

Sodemo · 22 Aug 2004, 12:17 (Ref:1074323)

I believe there was more passing back pre-1997, remember Suzuka 1996? JV was an animal into the chicane, passing about 3 - 4 cars from miles back, inside tyre locked - great stuff!
And remember Spa 95', what a battle!

Kicking-back · 22 Aug 2004, 12:42 (Ref:1074334)

Spa 1995 was such a battle because of the mixed up grid and wet/dry conditions.

People bemoaned a lack of overtaking back then just as they do now.

**Adam43** · 22 Aug 2004, 12:48 (Ref:1074339)

and Suzuka '96? Well Villeneuve was in a vastly quicker car and made a terrible start so he was in the mid-field.

No one made a bad start in Hungary and it didn't rain.

deeks6 · 23 Aug 2004, 04:27 (Ref:1074806)

I've resisted this thread for a while because I wanted to make sure I didnt sound like an old fart bashing the racing as it exists today. At 45 years of age and a follower of motor sport since I could walk, I have seen everything from about 1962 onwards so I can relate a few things first hand. firstly some points:

1. The F1 racing of today (with a few exceptions like Silverstone 03 for e.g) is regrettably not the best. Overtaking is a rarity and many of the races are a solution to insomnia.
2. There have been other periods of time when F1 has been a bit boring too, lets not forget, but nothing as bad as today.
3. All this talk of todays drivers are'nt as brave or as skillful is utter nonsense...they are every bit as brave and skillful as those of the past. Todays champions rate with the champions of the past. i would hazard a guess that these guys are as frustrated as we are that the racing is not as good, as even as past times.

So what is the problem?

It occurred to me just a couple of days ago when i was making a DVD for my father of F1 highlights, dices, crashes etc. Ther are just 2 main problems:

1. The aero grip of the cars exceeds the mechanical grip by just too far - we have talked about this ad nauseum.

2. The tyres are just too good these days...and this, I believe is the biggest single problem.
It occurred to me watching some old battles - Piquet and Senna at Estoril I think where Piquest ended up driving around Senna at Turn 1. The fanous Villeneuve/Arnoux battle in France where they literally used all the track and more. There was a Senna/Prost/Schumacher battle in about 93 where they were driving around the outside on occaisions. There were some old Jones/Piquet/Villeneuve battles in 79/80 that were amazing.
I used to think that the tracks were a problem - but those cars were wider than todays cars and if you look at Malaysia or Bahrain, these tracks are about 20m wide...then it dawned on me when I was watching a replay of a V8 supercar race at Oran Park. A close up of the dogleg showed how much rubbish was off the racing line (marbles). If you went off the racing line, you were gone. The F1 races are the same...worse probably because the tyres are even further advanced in technology. Then I loked at the old tapes - nothing like it.

THIS is the single biggest problem with racing today, not just F1. If you dare go off the racing line, you have a problem. So what is the point of a 20m wide track if you can't use it?

The main rule that needs to be attended to is tyres. they should be made to use a certain level of hard compound at a minimum and preferably slicks. Then they will be able to pass, drive different lines and pitstops will become meaningless.

Lotusonpole · 23 Aug 2004, 05:57 (Ref:1074829)

Hi
If the tyres were harder would this not reduce 'marbles" and give more of a track back for racing on?

It seems today there is only a "lane" for racing on...

Cheers
Peter

Sato san · 23 Aug 2004, 12:53 (Ref:1075106)

deeks6..what you say makes alot of sense...

Its hard to write in this thread without sounding like we dont like F1 nowdays....because i still do like F1 , But it really is a shadow of its former self ..( and im not talking about mid 90's ...im talking before that )
...but sometimes i find myself more interested in watching the drivers stick it on the limit in a F1 practice session or something like that rather than watching the race ...( with obvious exceptions )

A remark that Coulthard made in Hungary ( i think ) made me cringe ..it was something like ( as he had qualified badly ) ...he didnt expect too much from the race as he wouldnt be able to overtake! ..i mean , for heavens sake ...this is FORMULA 1 , this is meant to be the pinnicle of Worldwide Motorsport !!!...i cant have ever imagined Keke Rosberg , Mansell , Senna or many many drivers saying such a thing ...What was the point of racing with such an attiude ?. And if someone now says that DC has a good point (because you cant overtake in Hungary )...then i ask , why are we all watching this ?..arnt we all hoping that we will get a real few crackers of a race if we just hang in there long enough .

Look at what Mansell did in ( 89 was it ? ) ...13th or 14th on
the grid at Hungary ...What a charger that man was ....he went out to win that race !....this was the pinnicle of the sport he was in ...he had determination , and was up for anything ...He was a racer worthy enough to be on the grid in Formula 1 .

that is how it should be IMO .

**Adam43** · 23 Aug 2004, 13:14 (Ref:1075120)

Quote:

Originally posted by Sato san
A remark that Coulthard made in Hungary ( i think ) made me cringe ..it was something like ( as he had qualified badly ) ...he didnt expect too much from the race as he wouldnt be able to overtake!

I remember back in the '80s Prost used to make the exact opposite remark. Often he'd qualify 'poorly', but be confident for the race because he could overtake.

Knowlesy · 23 Aug 2004, 13:18 (Ref:1075126)

If you get rid of fuel strategies then at least the guys will be motivated to overtake because then they can't wait for the stops to rescue them.

It infuriates me when you hear those guys stating that they were quicker than the guy in front, could have overtaken but preferred to wait for the stops instead.

And who can blame them? I mean, it is probably the best option for them rather than risk the car.

But it is awful for us viewers!

deeks, I looked through the '79 season races and your point on marbles is very valid indeed. I had never thought of it that way....interesting.

Certainly, it is undesirable to get off line these days because you are effectively ice skating on a cliff edge. And then, after you've got back on line, you have to wait a couple of laps for your tyres to clean up and grip to be restored. So it's no wonder they won't get off the line.

Does the construction of grooved tyres make marbles more of an occurrence? There is probably more movement with grooved tyres and therefore, more **** falls off them.

To reiterate Sato sans point, I still love F1. But it is missing what it once had.

I know it will come back, but I don't know when.

Knowlesy · 23 Aug 2004, 13:22 (Ref:1075130)

Quote:

Originally posted by AdamAshmore
I remember back in the '80s Prost used to make the exact opposite remark. Often he'd qualify 'poorly', but be confident for the race because he could overtake.

Again, because there was no refuelling. He knew he'd overtake because he was better at managing the cars fuel and tyres than others and was always in a good position at around mid race to attack everyone else who had perhaps burnt their tyres out or who had stopped for tyres.

And then you'd get those who had stopped attacking the guys in front who hadn't stopped.

The races swung nicely. There wasn't necessarily more overtaking, but the initiative of the race swung around a lot more. Different guys were quicker at different stages.

Kicking-back · 23 Aug 2004, 13:43 (Ref:1075158)

Hopefully the one set of tyres-per-race proposed for next year will help.

Knowlesy · 23 Aug 2004, 14:01 (Ref:1075178)

Sod it....I'm gonna watch Dijon '79.!

Sato san · 23 Aug 2004, 14:07 (Ref:1075185)

Quote:

Originally posted by knowlesy
Sod it....I'm gonna watch Dijon '79.!

great plan !,....you know....i often think that Doctors should have a little copy of that on VHS in their medical cabinet just behind them on the wall as they sit at their desk ...

when ever your feeling abit low , go to the doctors , get a presciption for Dijon 79 , to be taken twice a day with drink ...its the perfect tonic ..

Sato san · 23 Aug 2004, 14:13 (Ref:1075191)

Quote:

Originally posted by knowlesy
And then you'd get those who had stopped attacking the guys in front who hadn't stopped.

abit like Senna / Mansell ...was that Jerez 1986 ??

that was a cracker !

Knowlesy · 23 Aug 2004, 14:16 (Ref:1075196)

Exactly like that, yes!

I'll watch that when Dijon finishes!

I feel better already!

Dijon on now....

Knowlesy · 23 Aug 2004, 19:24 (Ref:1075432)

I feel better now I've watched those.......

I can now go out into the street and shout in proclamation: "I AM AN F1 FAN!"

ASCII Man · 23 Aug 2004, 19:37 (Ref:1075443)

Okey... just don't hurt yourself in the process...
Damn, i whish i could watch Dijon '79 and/or Jerez '86...

Knowlesy · 23 Aug 2004, 19:49 (Ref:1075459)

Well you can't.

ASCII Man · 23 Aug 2004, 19:56 (Ref:1075467)

Figured that out all by yourself, eh?
Bravo! *claps*
Bravo!

Knowlesy · 23 Aug 2004, 20:10 (Ref:1075483)

Hehehe....

Lotusonpole · 24 Aug 2004, 05:59 (Ref:1075846)

So...are we agreed then?
F1 WAS better back then.....we have evidence your honour.
Cheers

Peter

Dani Filth · 24 Aug 2004, 07:37 (Ref:1075888)

Quote:

Originally posted by ASCII Man
Okey... just don't hurt yourself in the process...
Damn, i whish i could watch Dijon '79 and/or Jerez '86...

well . you can .. if you know where to get it from

knowlesy .. i hope you skiped to the last 10 minutes of the race

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