3 cars !

[raul_iulian]

My question to u is this!
Do u think next year will see F1 teams with 3 cars !!!???
Do u think it was wise 4 Ford to drop out !??
Do u think....VW or Audi, GM or Peugeot or other big Car Manufacturer should enter the World Of F1!!!??? If yes or no, what Car manufacturer would u like most to enter F1!!!!!??????

[Peter Mallett]

Do you think you could read the FAQ's and cease writing in SMS text please?

[steve_r]

See all of last weeks threads.

[DNQ]

It is quite likely. If it happens, I think my interesting in Snormula 1 will drop even more. Some will say "you're not a real fan if you think that" - I think the opposite. Real fans will mourn the loss of privateers and a manufacturer only series.

Perhaps people will see the light when we have 4-5 teams left. Toyota/Honda/BMW etc will just quit when the time comes - they have no loyalty to F1. Privateers do. It's a shame the F1 fraternity has let money take such a strong hold on F1 that the real TEAMS have died.

[raul_iulian]

Originally posted by DNQ
It is quite likely. If it happens, I think my interesting in Snormula 1 will drop even more. Some will say "you're not a real fan if you think that" - I think the opposite. Real fans will mourn the loss of privateers and a manufacturer only series.

Perhaps people will see the light when we have 4-5 teams left. Toyota/Honda/BMW etc will just quit when the time comes - they have no loyalty to F1. Privateers do. It's a shame the F1 fraternity has let money take such a strong hold on F1 that the real TEAMS have died.

See that's what i'm talking about! Great answer! In time Honda, Mercedes, Bmw will leave F1 because like u said for them is just a "something for the moment", they do not have any loyalty to F1... 2004 F1 is more likely the Battle of the Titans!!! It's a competition between teams is a battle between Car manufacturers!!!! tha's all that is.

[sonic]

yeay - 3 car teams! bring em on baby!

It would be so AMAZING:

teams could give exciting new rookies a shot, 20 well funded car on the grid, 50% extra team mate in-fighting.

When the maufacturers leave - which they undoubtedly will - the cost of F1 will come down and people will be able to enter and be competitive for less cash.

in the meantime we get great entertainment.

*lights blue touchpaper, runs to safe distance!*

[BootsOntheSide]

Out of itnerest, who gave 'exciting rookies' such as Raikkonen, Webber, Alonso, Michael, Ralf, Wilson, Heidfeld and Glock their chances? Privateers. The notion that top teams will do the same is flawed - why would they take a risk when their rivals could hire 3 championship-challenging drivers?

And what sane team would allow all 3 cars to take points off each other throughout the season?

Isn't it better ot keep the costs low in the enar future, rather than pricing another generation of aspiring team owners (successful in spec championships where organisation and planning are the most important things, young, enthusiastic and optimistic) out of the highest echelons of this sport? Why make it into even more of an extension of marketing strategy than it is now? It's better to get new teams in ASAP - Ford's exit ought to be the catalyst for a rethink.

[Spudgun]

I don't likr the prospect of 3 car teams. It just shows what state F1 is in. Just to make the numbers up.

Only just over 15 years ago there was Pre-qualifying AND THEN qualifying. Just goes to show it's the escalation of costs. With the budget Minardi has today they could have been fighting for wins back then. Madness.

Just going off tangent as I'm thinking as I'm typing the costs are mainly the engines. Getting all that power from an NA powerplant means extra RPM = massive development. Surely turbos with enforced spring-only valves (limits RPM to around 17,000 RPM) would bring costs down? Probably a subject for another thread, but just a thought.

[climb]

A miserable way to hide the team hemorrage in F1.

Should it happen, I just can't understand why and how could it help reduce costs, the real problem of F1 privateers.

[climb]

... however just a bit of patience and we'll soon see 4-car teams

[bathurst77]

WHat if they had a rule similar to the current "friday Driver" rulw, whereby the 3rd driver could not be a big name, or "championship winner" type.
Set guidelines to encourage 3 cars and the 3rd car must be for a younger or upcoming driver.

[climb]

doh, if a team wanted to have a 3-prime-driver lineup I'd honestly have nothing to complain about.

Would be interesting to see, say, Kimi, JPM, and JB in the same team.

[A. C. E. motors]

Bernie telling the engine manufactures that they will have to run three car teams or make customer engines available for next year is a business move.

He wants to keep the privateers (Jordan, Minardi) in F1, and with engine supplies from Ford Cosworth not being available next year, he is encouraging the other engine manufactures to make engines available to them.

So what this means is the engine manufactures will have to run a third car at a cost to them of millions; or sell some of their engines, which they might make a profit on, or at least not be anything like as much of a cost to them.

[BootsOntheSide]

I'd much rather see teams make their engines (and perhaps previous-year-spec chassis, if possible) available to smaller teams, than have them running third cars. The amount of teams who've left the sport since the late 80s is a terrifying thing - we've gone from around 18 teams who could survive on their own without a car manufacturer, to no more than 7 (Williams, McLaren, Sauber, Jordan, Minardi - maybe Renault and BAR). Changes to make it possibelf or new entrants are by far a better idea.

Note that you can add Trulli, Sato, Fisichella and Panis to that list - very few of today's top drivers were given tehir start by manufacturers, whose outlook is often far too short-termist.

[sonic]

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
I'd much rather see teams make their engines (and perhaps previous-year-spec chassis, if possible) available to smaller teams, than have them running third cars.

Now this is a good idea. Most US series exist with only around 3 manufacturers - and the racing great as a result.

It seems a ludicrous expense to have to fabricate practically everything from scratch and do that once, sometimes twice a year.

Nevertheless I still don't see 3 car teams correlating with the end of the motorsport world. Teams used to field more than 2 cars and we still have F1 today.

Manufacturers do give new talent a chance too - Button at BMW williams, Sato at BAR Honda (he was test driver there before his term at Jordan Honda remember) DC at Willimas Renault. and remeber even michael was a Mercedes factory sports car young gun before Jordan gave him go. with a 3rd car manufacturers would be able to be less risk averse and new talent will have to come from somwhere eventually.

Ultimately there will always be a bunch of people that want to race / compete at the highest level. even if all the manufacturers pull out tommorow the montoyas, Schumachers will race something! engine builders will build using something the team managers will buy / make chassis to compete with. It might not look the same as what we have now, we may not even have Bernie at the helm but there will be a pinnacle of motorsport.

Its naive to attempt to control the market forces at play - teams with more cash to spend will spend it and find an advantage, regardless of how long an engine has to last, etc - but it will eventually find its own level and its the people that really care about the sport who will remain.

In the mean time lets enjoy some close competitive racin!

[BootsOntheSide]

Some good points there sonic, but none of the 3-car teams of the earlier years really gave young or inexperienced drivers a chance - and this was before the massive commercial pressures of today. The emergence of teams such as Cooper, Brabham and Lotus is widely seen as one of the most positive events in F1 history, although all those teams are long gone.

[Andrew Kitson]

I'm old enough to remember a 5 car F1 team...
Yardley Team BRM in 1971.
It was a shambles though, resources spread too thin.
Hope the same thing does not happen if we do go to 3 car teams.
I for one have never been that keen on massive manufacturer involvement. Look at GT1 for example or the 90s BTCC & DTM. Some manufacturers arrive with massive budgets, (usually Mercedes) and drive the rest away,leaving...no-one and a dead series that has to be rebuilt.
The days of buying cars from the shelf and DFVs etc were the best when privateers could compete. Many manufacturers were suppliers too. I do not understand the 'we must have manufacturers' mentality.
Perhaps the teams should be encouraged to supply chassis to other 'wannabe' teams rather than have 3 car outfits and supplies of the new proposed F1 reg engines should be for sale or lease too..at a reasonable rate.

[raul_iulian]

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson
I'm old enough to remember a 5 car F1 team...
Yardley Team BRM in 1971.
It was a shambles though, resources spread too thin.
Hope the same thing does not happen if we do go to 3 car teams.
I for one have never been that keen on massive manufacturer involvement. Look at GT1 for example or the 90s BTCC & DTM. Some manufacturers arrive with massive budgets, (usually Mercedes) and drive the rest away,leaving...no-one and a dead series that has to be rebuilt.
The days of buying cars from the shelf and DFVs etc were the best when privateers could compete. Many manufacturers were suppliers too. I do not understand the 'we must have manufacturers' mentality.
Perhaps the teams should be encouraged to supply chassis to other 'wannabe' teams rather than have 3 car outfits and supplies of the new proposed F1 reg engines should be for sale or lease too..at a reasonable rate.

tHISE TIME ARE LONG GONE, MY FRIEND!

[EERO]

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson
I'm old enough to remember a 5 car F1 team...
Yardley Team BRM in 1971.
It was a shambles though, resources spread too thin.

Not only was it a shambles in 71, but Marlboro threw gobs of money at them for '72 and it was no less a shambles and STILL 5 cars. IIRC, Marko, Beltoise, Gethin, Wisell and Ganley, with Soler-Roig, Redman, Brack and Oliver on occaission.