How long?

[63gs]

Just registered but have been a huge Champcar fan for about 5 years now. Question though is assuming CART pulls through its current turmoil is it realistically possible for it to return to its once former glory...

[Bizzo5000]

Not unless NASCAR takes a nose dive. They really took advantage of the split and have all the marketing and viewership at this point. CART has a long road ahead if it wants to get anywere near the golden days.

[BootsOntheSide]

To really come back to prominance, CART needs a lot of things to cahnge, and many of them are out its hands now.

NASCAR's US success in recent years is down to a number of things. The racing is pure and simple, with a lack of complicationa dn lots of action. Unfortuantely, that appeals to the US psyche as it stands, especially in the south. The drivers are not only American, but recognisable characters with clear traits and strong rivalries. The fans lvoe that, even if it allows a thug to become an idolised 7 time champion.

The real rub is arguably that guys like Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart and Ryan Newman come from an open-wheel background. Gordon especially was much-hyped on his way up, but no CART team took a chance on him. The current fields of CART and IRL are lacking North American talent. Guys like Montoya and Zanardi,t ehy don't mind, but seeing guys like Lemarie and Lavin buying their way onto the grid is an insult. Even guys like Montiero, Servia and Dominguez not only lack US support, they have done little to prove themselves to be better than guys like Barron, Giebler and Bell.

The publicity in the US regarding the split has largely portrayed the IRL as the top series. They have Penske, Ganassi, Unser, and a new red-blooded US hero in Sam Hornish Jr. The appealof road racing is lost on teh current generation of US fans, adn they don't udnerstand the flaws with IRL aerodynamics. it's close, that's what they want.

Plus, they have Indy, which drew more fans when it only had Buddy Lazier and Scott Sharp than the top CART races got with Zanardi, Vasser, Unser Jr, Mikey, Tracy, Emmo and the other stars who were around back in 1996. The Indianapolis 500 name is incredibly evocative in America, and CART udnervalued that.

I think, somehow, CART and IRL need to come togethe rinto one series. The top 25 drivers from across the two championships, on the top road courses as well as ovals, with 220mph cars and wheel-to-wheel scraps, would win a lot of fans back.

However, who should be in charge? I'm not happy about the notions of bernie Ecclestone or Craig Pollock buying CART and running it as F1-lite. Nor do I want the egotistical, greedy, hypocritical Tony George in charge.Team owners, who have traditionally ran CART, soemtimes ar ein it for themselves a little too much. A panel of experts and legends who ar eno longer involved on or off-track might be the answer, but they're going to have friends in high places to bias things towards. It's a toughie, defiantely.

2003 has seen some very positive changes, no doubt about it. The current car regulatiosn with no traction control have ensured high quality racing,a dn a lot of well-intentioned enthusiasts make up the driver and team entry. However, the standard simply isn't high enough. Somehow we need everyone racing together. CART's TV deal is lame compared to the other 2 championships, publicity for events in the US s minimal, and people don't know when it's ahppening or why penske and Andreetti aren't in it.

[KC]

Where is a benevolent king when you need one?

I agree with Boots opinion above, except that even with his nice record of wins in the IRL, Sam Hornish Jr. is a virtual unknown among all but the hard core race fans. There are fans out there that know the name of the #4 tire changer for the Wood Brother's NASCAR team and don't know who Sam Hornish is and think that Jacque Lazier must be a Frenchman.

Foreign talent like Montoya and Zanardi were revered because of different reasons. Montoya was respected because he was all about winning the race and reminded fans of old timers like Foyt. Zanardi was loved because he was seen as a washed up F1 driver who came and resurrected his career and it was obvious he loved racing the car. It also helped that he could produce amazing comebacks and rooting for the underdog is a common theme in America.

Thats why I think that the concept that Americans only want to see American drivers does not always ring true. The current generation of fans loves Alex Zanardi as much as the previous did Mario Andretti. However, if the press continues to ring that particular bell long enough it will become true because one thing many Americans will do is believe anything that comes out of the mouth of a talking head on TV.

[Tim Northcutt]

Just for the Record....


Everybody in CART knew who Jeff Gordon was, but he didn't bring a pot load of money to the table to help "Buy His Seat," so no one in CART gave him a second look in the early 1990s...His DREAM was to run CART and to race in the Indy 500....but greed is a terrible thing...

even though "moving Road Blocks" like Hiro Matsushida were wasting a good car and good spots on grids because they have money...and guys like Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart were overlooked and left out...by the owners in CART...no one else is to blame for this...

This is one of the reasons why Tony George wanted on the CART Board and ultimately started his own series...that, plus his ego demanded that he start his own series in his own playground after CART wouldn't give him the opportunity to force CART to run things HIS way when they denied him a seat on the Board ( a good move by CART...one of the few good moves they have made)...

Gear Heads in Indy were ****ed when Jeff Gordon...a local boy...couldn't run in the Indy 500, because he didn't have a fat wallet to buy a seat, even though he had more than enough talent to drive for ANY CART team at that time.....and they were saddened to see him go of to NASCAR....

Two of NASCAR's bigger stars could have run in CART, and WANTED to run in CART.... but no one gave them the shot...

Now these marketable, visible drivers are making Madison Avenue and NASCAR happy, while CART could have had BOTH of them...

I know...$$$ talks and bull**** walks...and both of these very rich race drivers are laughing all the way to the bank while the owners in CART try to figure out where to go to next....

[Liz]

The average racing fan doesn't care if it's Jeff Gordon or Geoffrey d'Ambois in the car as long as he can drive. On the other hand they still think Ford is made in the United States and Jaguar is owned by the British and Mario Andretti still races in Champ Cars and any race held in the United States is better than any race held anywhere else, just because it is held in the United States.

Nothing whatsoever can "return to its former glory days" because people conveniently forget everything they hated about those days when they start whining about how much better it was back then. I loved the old days in airline travel when a person could get decent service and people with babies could not afford to fly. But back then I couldn't go to Europe five times a year like I do now.

As the old song says, "These are the good old days." Why not stop whining for a past that never existed and enjoy the present? Me, I'm off to the Molson Indy Block Party. In the Rain.

[Lee Janotta]

Those who fail to learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.

[Tim Northcutt]

Amen, LeeJanotta....

Jeff Gordon obviously CAN drive...and 10 years ago, there were a number of CART Teams with drivers in seats that Jeff Gordon was much better than...MUCH better...

Any CART Team could've had him by making a phone call...but they didn't...because he didn't have a fat wallet...

Sorry, Liz...but the CART Teams blew it, and it was one of Tony George's original hot buttons and one of the big problems he had with CART... the American Open Wheeled guys not getting a shot at Champ Cars.... that precipitated the split...

He didn't want to see history repeat itself with another talented guy like Tony Stewart getting the CART shaft because he didn't have a fat wallet...among other issues...

[Jay]

There really was no guarantee that Jeff Gordon would have done any better in Cart than say...Brian Herta or Scott Pruett in Cart. He blossomed in Nascar, but that's very different from Cart. He does seem to be good at racing the stock cars on roadcourses, but it's still not an open-wheel car. I don't think you can look back at Jeff Gordon and say Cart made a mistake, who knows what might have happened or how he would have done. It's impossible to say.

[paulzinho]

One thing that IMO CART hasn't been doing too well on is replacing many pvals with street courses. Part of what made it so great in the past was its huge variety of courses which gave rise to the need to be able to adapt. Having a calender with Superspeedways, short ovals, street courses and road courses and heck even an airport! What other series boasts that! Its just a shame that they've steered towards focusing on some aspects more than others although I understand that there were reasons for this it just seems a bit of a waste to throw away one of the best features about the series.

BTW I'd love to see Gordon and Stewart do single seaters!

[gttouring]

Although not all streetcourses are winners for cart.
St. Pete with part of the runway is brilliant-Cleavland-Longbeach.
all good Surfer's great-Vancouver- um denver?-no
no more street courses-we have ROAD courses in this country for CART
go To CanADa to Mosport. go to Road Atlanta! go to VIR-Watkins glen, Go to BarbePark-Go to Sears point and Laguna, do them all and then fit in street fights this would make the series much better

[gttouring]

and Gordon can handle a champ car I am sure better than half the guys there now, Stewart was an IRL champ, he can do it too, There is talent in NASCAR after all there is money there now

[Liz]

Is it "Money = Talent" or "Talent = money"? If the former, Dale Coyne would have won more championships than Newman-Haas.

[Tim Northcutt]

Make no mistake about it....Jeff Gordon is fast in just about anything on four wheels...

I watched him in the Williams F-1 car at Indy during my lunch hour, and he was up to speed quickly in a high horsepower, light chassis with paddle shifters that he had never touched before jumping into the seat that day...

I also agree with gttouring on the road course issue...

there are many natural circuits that CART could run...but keep in mind that those ciruits have to match up with the criteria that Pook and CART are looking at when they want to go to a new market...

In that scenario, Road Atlanta makes great sense....not as sure about VIR and Watkins Glen or Barber Park...what metro areas are ther around or nearby that would be a reason for them to try those courses?

There is a new road course being built just south of Dallas in a town called Waxahachie Texas that might be a possibility, but I may not be done until the spring of 2005...look at the facility under the header "boundless ision..."

Personally, I know Long beach is a successful event, but on TV it is a BORING, BORING, BORING race with almost ZERO passing...when someone does try to pass, everybody ends up stuck into the wall...

St. Pete is the only CART street race that I have enjoyed watching over the last 20 years....the only one....

Go to www.e-tracksonline.co.uk and look down through the headline areas for

[Tim Northcutt]

Sorry...for the new track:

www.e-tracksonline.co.uk and look for the headline "Boundless vision"
for the track just south of Dallas...

[GP Racer]

CART is a great series IMO, but they need to get some more American drivers involved if they are going to survive. I know that sounds shallow and nationalistic, but this is a n North American series, and it needs to have a couple of all American heroes that the fans can relate to. Names like Carpentier, Bourdies, and Junquiera are never going to be household names here, and I just don't think American fans are going to get excited over these drivers no matter how good the racing is. Lets face it, it's hard to market these guys compared to the NASCAR guys.

That being said, there have been great foreign drivers in the series in the past who were crowd favorites, but they were always balanced by a good group of American drivers. Thats no longer the case, there are only two Americans left now and one may leave the series soon. Where will that leave CART?

[evo]

Judging from the way the Atlantic's season has been going, I think we're sure to see another driver from the USA in Champ Cars next season.

[Liz]

So Americans can relate to names like Felipe Giaffone but not to names like Patrick Carpentier? Who, in case you haven't noticed, is in fact a North American? As are Dominguez, Fernandez, Lavin (whose name is not Levine, no matter what those gits on Global think), Tracy and Tagliani.

Americans don't have any problem relating to names like Kareem Olijawan, as far as I can tell, not to mention Vijay Singh, Yo Yo Ma and Mario Andretti. They can get used to names like Sebastien Bourdais and Bruno Junqueira too.

[gttouring]

sebastian bourdais is awesome- junky is annoying
we all can get used to names, but it is knowing them and their struggle through life and sport which is essential for US audiences-fro example- the chain of races and stuff to work your way up to the NEXTEL cup everyone knows and can play it in video games,and read in magazines. CART doesn't really get that close to the audience with a great majority of pee poor games and bad magazine coverage- I certainly do my best learning on the toilet.

[BobbyB]

Originally posted by Liz
The average racing fan doesn't care if it's Jeff Gordon or Geoffrey d'Ambois in the car as long as he can drive. On the other hand they still think Ford is made in the United States and Jaguar is owned by the British and Mario Andretti still races in Champ Cars and any race held in the United States is better than any race held anywhere else, just because it is held in the United States.

Liz, I'm getting a little tired of your slurs against Americans. Why don't you keep your opinions involving American culture to yourself? Moderators- I expect you to be watching for a change here.

[GoFaster]

The answer is NO,that is as long as there's only one engine,no money, drivers that belong in Atlantics,and Pook.

[GoFaster]

BobbyB,
I agree with you!

[Hans.ca]

BobbyB, Liz is entitled to her opinion, she is an American citizen.

[Prost!]

Originally posted by Hans.ca
BobbyB, Liz is entitled to her opinion, she is an American citizen.

Ditto! And, please do tell if Liz is incorrect on this one!

Prost!