[BTCC] Knockhill - Rounds 19, 20, 21

[Craner Curves]

Oh well, I expected pullouts and we've got them!

http://www.btcc.net/html/generalnews_detail.php?id=3113

That's a joke. Why commit to a series and then pick and choose what you want to do? Always get shortchanged up here, always. At least it's not frontrunning cars, as that would be a big shame.

Yours,
Angry of Scotland

[Pettersson]

I think it's a joke, too. Sure, it's a long way to go to Scotland and it costs money. But honestly, UK isn't that large. Just as an example, the STCC teams where as high up as in Östersund in northern Sweden, and now less than 2 weeks later they are going all the way south to Denmark.

If the Knockhill round would have been south (think of like northern France, but still in the UK), it would have been all different. It's always such a big fuss about going north, and it's the same in Sweden even if Östersund managed to get decent grids for being 2012.

[davyboy]

Don't forget that the distance also plays a part in attracting sponsors/guests too. Not many of them will be prepared to take a plane trip to a BTCC event. It's not just the distance though. Knockhill is tight, twisty and short and has a history for incurring a lot of damage... particularly if it's wet. If I was on a tight budget it would be the one I'd consider missing too.

[crmalcolm]

It's hardly a surprise that Gilham isn't there though. Holland is in the second of his agreed meetings, and Thorney themselves had already withdrawn the car - it was a bonus to see Gilham in the seat at Snetterton.

Aside from extra fuel to drive north, what additional costs are incurred over a meeting at somewhere like Croft?

[Thaw Daggerslash]

Given the race of attrition most BTCC races seem to be these days, we'll be lucky to see five cars making it to the finish in each race!

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

It's hardly a surprise that Gilham isn't there though. Holland is in the second of his agreed meetings, and Thorney themselves had already withdrawn the car - it was a bonus to see Gilham in the seat at Snetterton.

I know, it's RAR and AmD I'm disappointed in.

[I Rosputnik]

Yeah it does get very annoying when teams decide to avoid Knockhill, but I'm surprised the BTCC does not make a trip to Wales as well, it would be nice to balance things out.

Still, coming to Scotland would be nice.

[Thorney]

I would love to come to Knockhill, indeed I'd love to be able to afford drive my own car but sadly the budget isnt there. Such is the business of racing in the UK, people want to see it, will pay to see it but if the people that spectators want to see cant actually afford to go there is a breakdown in the system somewhere.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by I Rosputnik

Yeah it does get very annoying when teams decide to avoid Knockhill, but I'm surprised the BTCC does not make a trip to Wales as well, it would be nice to balance things out.

Still, coming to Scotland would be nice.

I'm not sure how things are done for Knockhill, but I know that when the series visited Ireland, Mondello had to stump up a significant amount to cover the travelling costs of the circus.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Thorney

I would love to come to Knockhill, indeed I'd love to be able to afford drive my own car but sadly the budget isnt there. Such is the business of racing in the UK, people want to see it, will pay to see it but if the people that spectators want to see cant actually afford to go there is a breakdown in the system somewhere.

I think all real touring car fans completely understand your situation John and indeed most of us were just glad to see the car out in Snetterton... and doing quite well there too. Hopefully funds will emerge from somewhere and enable you guys to get back out again before the season's out.

[I Rosputnik]

Originally Posted by Thorney

I would love to come to Knockhill, indeed I'd love to be able to afford drive my own car but sadly the budget isnt there. Such is the business of racing in the UK, people want to see it, will pay to see it but if the people that spectators want to see cant actually afford to go there is a breakdown in the system somewhere.

Plus considering that there is not a great deal of money or sponsors around these days in any form of racing helps no one. May things improve swiftly.

Food for thought, if there was another track (not replacing Knockhill) in Scotland that was closer to the borders, would that help with things for teams who can not make the trip to Knockhill while giving the Scottish fans a chance to see them?

(Sorry, I was a little harsh with that last line in the prior post.)

[SteveLevin]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

I know, it's RAR and AmD I'm disappointed in.

I suspect it's not as much the location as that RAR doesn't have enough money right now to run all four weekends and Knockhill's probably the most expensive of the four, so it becomes the sacrificial weekend.

Honestly, I'm thrilled that Rob Austin has gotten on track as much as he has; it looked like he was completely done a couple of months ago.

Steve

[I Rosputnik]

Originally Posted by davyboy

I'm not sure how things are done for Knockhill, but I know that when the series visited Ireland, Mondello had to stump up a significant amount to cover the travelling costs of the circus.

It would be interesting to see the figures for running the BTCC and then break down the travel costs. If travel costs were not the Achilles heel it is to the series then I would like to think the BTCC could spread to all parts of the UK and Ireland.

(Just compared the distance between Croft and Knockhill... It's pretty deceivingly big.)

[redshoes]

Cleland is there doing demo laps in his old Cavalier. The car may not meet S2000 or NGTC regs but if things get desperate I'm sure Gow will give the car an exemption and allow him to race.

[Inside BTCC]

Something else to consider is that Knockhill is one of the tightest circuits on the calendar and - of those left - is the circuit where you are most likely to come away with some hefty damage.

Consider last year and the accident Austin had in race one. Something like that again this year and a large repair bill could finish him for the season.

No team wants to miss a meeting and it won't have been an easy decision for those who are staying at home.

At the same time, good to see Lea Wood's team making the trip having never made it up to Knockhill before.

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by I Rosputnik

It would be interesting to see the figures for running the BTCC and then break down the travel costs. If travel costs were not the Achilles heel it is to the series then I would like to think the BTCC could spread to all parts of the UK and Ireland.

The only reason they went to Mondello was subsidised ferry travel from Irish Ferries and Holiday In Ireland, hence the number plate logos at the time.

Originally Posted by redshoes

Cleland is there doing demo laps in his old Cavalier. The car may not meet S2000 or NGTC regs but if things get desperate I'm sure Gow will give the car an exemption and allow him to race.

Ah yes, the 1990 car posing as the 1992 machine. That annoys me too.

[touringlegend]

Dissapointing but to be expected really, each year without fail there's one or two amiss.

I understand the reasons are budgetary and many elect to give it a miss, but I do honestly believe that there is a belief in UK motorsport that Knockhill is some hell hole that it only ever rains at and is a top of Ben Nevis.

Having been to many UK circuits I wish they were all within 10 minutes of the motorway network like Knockhill is...!

(BTW Craner should it not be Rounds 19, 20, 21??)

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by touringlegend

(BTW Craner should it not be Rounds 19, 20, 21??)

No, I skipped a meeting because it was too far away.

[touringlegend]

Well this is only Rounds 4, 5 & 6 for me then?

Which shall I change it to?

[Craner Curves]

Change it to whatever you see fit.

On a more positive note, looking forward to the Minis and Scottish Classics again.

[600bhppertonne]

Originally Posted by Inside BTCC

Something else to consider is that Knockhill is one of the tightest circuits on the calendar and - of those left - is the circuit where you are most likely to come away with some hefty damage.

I honestly haven't heard so much drivel in a long while:

Circuits tightness and damage - been racing there of an on for 6 years, no damage infact the only person i saw going off with any serious damage was our freind in the orange Lambo a couple of years ago and he done it a few times. Cadwell - Thruxton - Brands, they all have there fair share of cars going off but its racing and drivers should adapt, knockhill isn't any worse than the rest in fact i would say since the improvements of the track over the winter its better with regards to run off

Costs - If you can afford to run in the BTCC you should be able to attend the Knockhill round, i travel around the uk to events and live 3 hours north of the border. It surely is just diesel that's the extra cost, i don't even care if it isn't, the only 'away' round being knockhill and you get competitors giving it the elbow.

I experienced this in some other clubs that had to travel to CROFT, living in the central part of the uk even within 100 miles of this area (milton keynes etc) you have pretty good access to most of the English circuits, where most of them lived, and one trip to Croft per year and it was a big bummer.

In Crofts case, the circuit needs support the club/ DDMC and the track, same with Knockhill not having the same circumstance as Croft, but these big events should support them. Ok there are costs but tracks where money is made should essentially be able indirectly subsidize those who dont earn the top dollar.

Nuff said

[gregc]

Originally Posted by touringlegend

I understand the reasons are budgetary and many elect to give it a miss, but I do honestly believe that there is a belief in UK motorsport that Knockhill is some hell hole that it only ever rains at and is a top of Ben Nevis.

Just a spectator here, but to be fair the only reason I've never been before is the distance, I know from talking to friends that in terms of getting to the circuit itself it's one of the better venues! You have to admit there is usually at least a fair chance of rain though... (and it's looking reasonably likely this weekend, though more showery than anything else on Sunday at least).

That said, it's a circuit I've been promising myself I'd travel to at some point and with it being a bank holiday weekend this year I'm heading north, and really looking forward to it.

[touringlegend]

Originally Posted by 600bhppertonne

I experienced this in some other clubs that had to travel to CROFT, living in the central part of the uk even within 100 miles of this area (milton keynes etc) you have pretty good access to most of the English circuits, where most of them lived, and one trip to Croft per year and it was a big bummer.

I've heard Cadwell being moaned about as too far north!! I've just spent 7 hours travelling south to here pal..

Originally Posted by gregc

Just a spectator here, but to be fair the only reason I've never been before is the distance, I know from talking to friends that in terms of getting to the circuit itself it's one of the better venues! You have to admit there is usually at least a fair chance of rain though... (and it's looking reasonably likely this weekend, though more showery than anything else on Sunday at least).

That said, it's a circuit I've been promising myself I'd travel to at some point and with it being a bank holiday weekend this year I'm heading north, and really looking forward to it.

I still would like to see rainfall records for Knockhill and see how they compare to the rest of the UK, bet you it'd surprise a few people..

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

No, I skipped a meeting because it was too far away.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by 600bhppertonne

I honestly haven't heard so much drivel in a long while:

Circuits tightness and damage - been racing there of an on for 6 years, no damage infact the only person i saw going off with any serious damage was our freind in the orange Lambo a couple of years ago and he done it a few times. Cadwell - Thruxton - Brands, they all have there fair share of cars going off but its racing and drivers should adapt, knockhill isn't any worse than the rest in fact i would say since the improvements of the track over the winter its better with regards to run off

I've heard a number of people, not just those in the BTCC, mention that the configuration of Knockhill lent itself to an increased risk of incidents and damage. I've not examined the stats, so I don't know whether it's true or false, but if drivers are saying that... and teams are not making the trip there, it's reasonable to consider it as a factor for not going.