Anyone can whistle?

[danccooke]

sometimes you cannot help but not be looking at the traffic, A1GP prime example of trying to get strop through the roll hoop of a paticularly reluctant FF. I am not a chameleon and can only look in one direction at once. I had an IO watching my back but had he not been there i would have appriciated a whistle from Anyone when the pack came round. I'm not wanting to argue but I think overkill is better than being killed. Simple as.

[White flag man]

Originally Posted by danccooke

sometimes you cannot help but not be looking at the traffic, A1GP prime example of trying to get strop through the roll hoop of a paticularly reluctant FF. I am not a chameleon and can only look in one direction at once. I had an IO watching my back but had he not been there i would have appriciated a whistle from Anyone when the pack came round. I'm not wanting to argue but I think overkill is better than being killed. Simple as.

You certainly get my vote on this debate Dan.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by Robin_D

Does anyone remember when Eddie Jordan handed out whistles at the BGP?

...and yellow flags. Grrrr.

[JimW]

Originally Posted by MarshalGirl

If there are multiple whistle holders how do you know who is blowing and why?

Always been told (and tell my crew) that the observer has the whistle. If you hear it check up the track to see what's coming / check your escape route if all clear then look to the observer to see what he wants (car number? / recovery required?).

This then protects you and avoids confusion

Gosh, you must have listened to one of my briefings once.

Regards

Jim

[blueflagger]

Originally Posted by gachjoel

Or you could get a whistle without a pea in it.

The Fox 40 has no pea - and it is LOUD.

On the left side of the pond, most of us carry whistles. There are certain sequences that the captain/observer uses to indicate flags but the rest just use them to get the captain's attention. These whistle signals usually precede the hand signals we use to communicate observations we have about the cars (such as leaking oil, dragging parts, turtle entering course, etc.).

[Asp]

Originally Posted by MarshalGirl

If there are multiple whistle holders how do you know who is blowing and why?

If you hear it check up the track to see what's coming / check your escape route if all clear then look to the observer to see what he wants
[Emphasis added]

That's a key point - you check up the track first on hearing a whistle. If non-Observers don't whistle to get attention for car numbers / you've dropped something / whatever and only for safety issues, I don't see a problem with it.
Indeed, at certain posts it may be better if a warning whistle comes from a flaggie at an "In" flag point who may have better visibility of the preceding track so can give more warning.

If there's any chance of confusion - discuss it at the morning on-post briefing!

[Sheila M]

Originally Posted by Piglet

[sorry Woolley]

As a Specialist I hate the use of whistles, most of those that we communicate with are people not dogs and I prefer to talk to them rather than whistle at them!

On a practical note, the danger with blowing is a whistle to alert someone of danger is that they will look at the direction of the noise rather than in the direction of the hazard that you are trying to alert them to.

There are some instances where they can be useful but on the whole I'd rather they were not used in a pits/startline environment.

As an Examining Specialist I always carry a whistle in the pit lane. It's always tucked into a pocket but I know where it is if I need to use it. It can come in useful if the pit lane buzzer has failed (but only if you are at the entry as people do tend to look in the direction of the whistle, as you quite correctly point out, Piglet).

On the occasions when I run Assembly (usually Mallory) I sometimes use a whistle to alert drivers to start engines, follow parade cars, etc.

At places like Donington with a big(ish) pit lane when we are short staffed a quick blast on the whistle can be useful when trying to clear the pit wall for the start of a race, and also to alert colleagues that something is amiss. A classic example of the latter was a few years ago at Silverstone. Ron Cummings in the Arrows had come into the pit lane during a practice session and pushed his car into his garage where it promptly burst into flames. I was the only one by the garage at the time so grabbed a bottle and blew my whistle simultaneously. I was joined by another couple of marshals very quickly

[Ian Briggs]

Its all down to circumstances and accepted practice, for my money, the Obs/IO are the only whistles I think should be used trackside, pit lane etc, dunno due to no experience.
With my Rallying Hat (shamag for those who know) on, every one should carry one, my set instruction to all marshals going in search of a lost car, "Blow it like bu66ery and some one will come"
by the way, 25yr old Acme "Scout" had since I was a Scout, fittingly

[cowchap]

I have seen whistles used more than once to stop spetators wandering in to areas they shouldnt be wandering in to, very successfully too

[Woolley]

It's definitely not good to use the whistle while the person next to you is using the radio... I think course control's ears fell off today at Shelsley!

[Clive]

depends which end of the radio you're on!

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by danccooke

I had an IO watching my back but had he not been there i would have appriciated a whistle from Anyone when the pack came round.

You're missing one of the fundamental rules of marshalling here. If you can't do it safely, don't do it!. You are responsible first & foremost for your own safety; if you're constantly getting into situations where you're needing someone with a whistle to alert you to impending danger, you need to reassess the way you approach incidents. (Note: the use of 'you' is not in any way intended as a criticism of you personally - it's intended as a generalisation!)

I'm accustomed to the observer, or the de facto observer, being the only person on the post with a whistle; MarshalGirl has explained the reasons for that - I see no need for change.

[mc1arke]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

if you're constantly getting into situations where you're needing someone with a whistle to alert you to impending danger, you need to reassess the way you approach incidents.

Although true for if someone is constantly at risk - there are incidents you go to and as getting the driver out/snatching/pushing another car runs wide/spins off/makes a general b*lls up. These situations are where someone with a whistle is required to alert everyone at the incident that something may be coming towards them, and unfortunately the observer cannot always be watching what happening (especially at circuits like Donnington where they have their head stuck in the cage trying to phone race control).

In my opinion, everyone should be able to carry a whistle - and I would expect anyone backing up an incident (standing on the wall with an extinguisher etc.) to be ready with a whistle in case a driver does make a 'mistake', not just an observer stuck at the main post or an IO who may also be assisting at the incident and may not have their full attention on what is coming towards them.

[danccooke]

In the four years I have been marshalling (considerably less that many I know) I have been accustomed to at least the Obs and Flags having whistles sometimes others.
Our safety is paramount but when you step over the other side of the bank instantly you are in danger, there are degrees of danger and by use of common sense and team work that danger is reduced.
The situation i mention is without doubt the most dubious position i have been in, what should have been a simple snatch was made difficult but the car itself, but having a big heavy yellow thing to hide behind when the pack came round made it vastly safer. My point is not that though.

My point is that if i am the dangerous side of the bank and something happens that I haven't anticipated or seen coming, I dont care who blows a whistle, if I am in a position of danger however I have come into this postion I want to hear some form of warning and if someone blows a whistle that alerts me to that danger so I can remove myself from harms way then I don't care if it was the Observer, Flaggies, Course who blew the whistle.

I am a course marshal, in your view I should not have a whistle, however this weekend I was observer and flag on Saturday?? I would have been Whistleless. Ok i didn't need it but.....?

[Nadine J Lewis]

Originally Posted by mc1arke

Although true for if someone is constantly at risk - there are incidents you go to and as getting the driver out/snatching/pushing another car runs wide/spins off/makes a general b*lls up. These situations are where someone with a whistle is required to alert everyone at the incident that something may be coming towards them.

Hence why marshals are paired up - one with head in car while other is lookout.

Originally Posted by danccooke

I am a course marshal, in your view I should not have a whistle, however this weekend I was observer and flag on Saturday?? I would have been Whistleless. Ok i didn't need it but.....?

In this instance as observer then yes you would possibly want one - but not as a course marshal!

[JimW]

Originally Posted by danccooke

. . .
I am a course marshal, in your view I should not have a whistle, however this weekend I was observer and flag on Saturday?? I would have been Whistleless. Ok i didn't need it but.....?

When I'm doing course, the whistle is in my bag; when I'm observing, it's hung round my neck. Easy.

Regards

Jim

[danccooke]

Ok i was being ironic there but I maintain that there are times when more than the observer should have a whistle. Unless I am categorially told I am not to have a whistle on me then it will remain with me. If the observer is in his hut writing a report or calling in a situation. Looking down the track at an incident as another incident unfolds up track. I don't care but one person cannot have thier eyes in all directions at once. As good as you observers are (trust me i appriciate it a little more after saturday) you are not omnipotent and all seeing.

[gachjoel]

As a course marshal i always carry a whistle.
If i see something that the person responsible for blowing doesn`t see it.
Then i can warn other marshals.

Rule 1. Look after yourself

Rule 2. Look after your fellow marshals.

Rule 2 is why i keep a whistle on me.

[welshgal_2006]

Originally Posted by Woolley

It's definitely not good to use the whistle while the person next to you is using the radio... I think course control's ears fell off today at Shelsley!

I think they were woken up by it. Whistles at hill climbs for everyone are good but, I agree with Wooley, not when the person next to you is using the radio.

[mc1arke]

Originally Posted by MarshalGirl

Hence why marshals are paired up - one with head in car while other is lookout.

Not wanting to sound pedantic - but what happens when you and your partner are both pushing a car, or one of you is getting the driver out while another is using an extinguisher? Yes we are supposed to have our focus on the track as well as the incident, but when something is happening, that isn't always possible.

Also - what happens if more than one car is off and your IO is dealing with one car while the observer is on the phone/radio? Who whistles to warn anyone of impending danger? On some posts with only one flag marshal they may be in a situation where they cannot get to their whistle or do not see a car coming in, and in that case I would want anyone on my team, no matter where they are standing or what they are doing (flag, track, observer), to be able to get my attention - with the best method being to use a whistle.

[Tangoman]

Originally Posted by gachjoel

As a course marshal i always carry a whistle.
If i see something that the person responsible for blowing doesn`t see it.
Then i can warn other marshals.

Rule 1. Look after yourself

Rule 2. Look after your fellow marshals.

Rule 2 is why i keep a whistle on me.

Same here. My mate, a fellow marshal, said yesterday when we were discussing this, "I would rather hear 5 people whistling a warning than none because the Observer was busy on the phone/radio/dealing with something else."

[danccooke]

Mc1arke glad we are both seeing this from the same perspective.
Saturday we only had three on post so one flagging and observer, two course, one of which was a trainee/novice/newbie whatever the PC term is these days. At one point was waving a yellow flag whilst having my head half in the hut on the phone calling it in. Didn't leave me with many options had I need to blow a whistle.

[DavidBritainUK]

I'm always haapy for other team members to carry and use a whistle. Clear instructions at the Post briefing: one long blast - look upstream, something is coming; two short blasts - look at the observers point, I'm trying to signal something (e.g. what recovery is required?).

And, because there are times when I'm in the hut talking to Race Control, I expect the team to keep watch on each other.

[Norbert]

To further clarify my earlier post stating that as Observer I request only myself and flags to carry whistles. I agree wholeheartedly with all the comments stating that there should at all times be someone available to whistle whilst we are trackside. The flags should never have their eyes off the track, I request that they act my eyes when I can't (talking to race control etc). Provided that I feel that there is sufficient 'whistle cover' between myself and flags I request that no other marshals carry them.

Aside from my concerns about people potentially being injured by having objects ripped from their necks I can recall 2 incidents where a whistle around the neck or attached to zips have delayed marshals getting to place of safety. In both incidents the marshals in question were about to return to the safe side of the bank. In the 1st instance the whistle hanging around their neck got caught around the wing mirror of a saloon car. In the 2nd the whistle that was in their pocket had come out whilst dealing with a single seater, it was attached to the zip, the whistle then became tangled around the wishbone.

In both incidents they had to spend potentially precious seconds untangling themselves before returning to safety.

PS I will be observing on Post 12 at Thruxton for trucks this weekend if anyone wants to say Hello or discuss my reasoning any further.

[welshgal_2006]

Originally Posted by Norbert

Aside from my concerns about people potentially being injured by having objects ripped from their necks I can recall 2 incidents where a whistle around the neck or attached to zips have delayed marshals getting to place of safety. In both incidents the marshals in question were about to return to the safe side of the bank. In the 1st instance the whistle hanging around their neck got caught around the wing mirror of a saloon car. In the 2nd the whistle that was in their pocket had come out whilst dealing with a single seater, it was attached to the zip, the whistle then became tangled around the wishbone.

That is why everyone who wears a whistle should be wearing a lanyard/ necklace with a sanp attatchment. This way events like this would be prevented. Pieces of rope dangling will mean you are porbably going with the car in which ever direction it feels it may want to go next.