[LM24 Race] Mercedes vs Toyota take your pick...

[miguel1810]

Yep, you heard me right...

MERCEDES vs TOYOTA!!!

I am of course going back in time 10 years ago... I have, like many of you on here been following Le Mans for many years... (My first was in 1995 (JJ Lehto and his awesome display in the Ueno Clinic McLaren F1 - yes it was wet.. but crikey what a display... I will never forget Ian Titchmarsh doing the commentary on Radio Le Mans... and how he was staggered to be reading the timings from Lehto's laps and they were getting QUICKER!!! in the wet... - as we know rain is a great leveller and if it rains then this will make things interesting... but I hope it doesn't rain...

Anyway... back to my first proper post... 10 years ago the main focus was the Mercedes vs Toyota battle for overall honours. Yes, you had Audi going there as well with the untried R8R and RLR (top chap - sadly missed) prepared R8C's and there were the BMW LM's. The smart money was on either a Mercedes or Toyota winning. Of courses Mercedes withdrew their 3 cars after the 'flipping' incident on the Mulsanne. So that was three out of the way... so then people expected a Toyota cake walk to the title... The BMW's didn't really expect to do well... let alone WIN!

My point is that everyone is talking about the diesel Audis and Peugeots slugging it out for the race win... the Astons and the Oreca are expected to do well but not challenge for the overall win...

I expect the Diesels to run away for the first 2 to 3 hours... it would be great if a petrol LMP1 was mixing it with the 'Hare' diesels and I'd reckon both Audi and Peugeot will have a 'hare' in the 3 car team...

But over 12 hours... The Aston (out of the Aston & the Oreca AIM) could be in the top 5 and in with a shout... An awful lot can happen in 24 hours.

And I'm not discounting an AMR win...

And if your off to the 24 Heures this year, I reckon your in for a cracker of a race... See you there

Miguel1810

[GT6]

I was at Arnarge just after lunch that year and remember a very sick Toyota GT1 coming around from indianapolis and passing us we all knew that all Martin Brundels efforts were not going to give the win to Toyota even as RLM was still talking about the Toyota running away with it. Just happened to be in the right place at the right time that year.

[Gingers4Justice]

The difference between the late 90s and now is that the expected teams carry a performance advantage AND fuel economy advantage.

[AstonGeoff]

Originally Posted by miguel1810

I expect the Diesels to run away for the first 2 to 3 hours... it would be great if a petrol LMP1 was mixing it with the 'Hare' diesels and I'd reckon both Audi and Peugeot will have a 'hare' in the 3 car team...

Miguel1810

I expect the three R15's and the three Pugs to run away for the first 24 hours

The days of "hare" cars are long gone I'm afraid, it's a 24 hour sprint these days. The only factor will be driver performance, leaving aside any car failures.

Only hope for the petrol cars is for the ACO to give them another performance break, and even then they'll be doing well to get on the podium.

But I'm still expecting a great race

[miguel1810]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

The difference between the late 90s and now is that the expected teams carry a performance advantage AND fuel economy advantage.

I think if my memory is correct the Toyota GT1 and the Mercedes were a class above the rest of the main contenders.... I was drawing parallels with 10 years ago... people expected it to be a Toyota vs Merc battle - as in the year its billed again as Audi vs Peugeot... the Audi R8R and R8C were very new and untried - much like the Oreca Aim this year and the BMW LM was good but not considered a contender for a race win - much like the AMR Lolas....

A lot can happen in 24 hours - especially if it rains... now I'm off to watch Trust in 24.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by miguel1810

I think if my memory is correct the Toyota GT1 and the Mercedes were a class above the rest of the main contenders.... I was drawing parallels with 10 years ago... people expected it to be a Toyota vs Merc battle - as in the year its billed again as Audi vs Peugeot... the Audi R8R and R8C were very new and untried - much like the Oreca Aim this year and the BMW LM was good but not considered a contender for a race win - much like the AMR Lolas....

A lot can happen in 24 hours - especially if it rains... now I'm off to watch Trust in 24.

Yes but the Toyotas and Mercs didn't carry a fuel economy, power and displacement advantage - it was just raw pace.

Having said that, I get where you are coming from, but its not quite like that at the moment,
Besides, Audi have been in it for 10 years, Merc and Toyota at the time only two. Toyota and Merc weren't experienced enough as a team, and while Toyota didn't have the Merc or Pug attitude of "To hell with, lets go as fast as we can till we drive our car to pieces", they weren't as cool, tactical and smooth as the Audi Joest team is.

[Gil Abobeleira]

Some people forget that BMW was leading after the first hour, let alone when Mercedes withdrew from the race.

They were not as slow as everybody thought and they had two advantages over the Toyotas:

a) much better fuel economy (the Toyota, believe it or not, were running a 2 valve per cilinder engine! );
b) much better fuel stops (each time a Toyota pitted, it lost about 5 to 10 seconds to leave the pits, because the starter motor was overheating).

[Rodger Davies]

Screw the engines, the main difference I see is that Audi have been winning these races for the last 9 years and even Peugeot has 1000k winning experience, whereas neither Mercedes or Toyota had won a single race anywhere in the world with their cars before attenpting Le Mans.

BMW won Sebring (which is one of the reasons I'd placed a bet on the winning car that year - the other was Dalmas-theory). Hopefully this shows any future potential entrants the importance of running in one of the two regional series.

[GTfour]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Yes but the Toyotas and Mercs didn't carry a fuel economy, power and displacement advantage - it was just raw pace.
Toyota and Merc weren't experienced enough as a team, and while Toyota didn't have the Merc or Pug attitude of "To hell with, lets go as fast as we can till we drive our car to pieces", they weren't as cool, tactical and smooth as the Audi Joest team is.

... Say,weren't you four back then? Go tell me you read the programme and were allready discussing the fora?

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by GTfour

... Say,weren't you four back then? Go tell me you read the programme and were allready discussing the fora?

No lol, I've watched the videos, read the books, discussed the bebates and so on.

I'm also a bit of a Group C fan - I watched my dad's 80s Le Mans videos when my mum thought I was watching Pingu.

[miguel1810]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

No lol, I've watched the videos, read the books, discussed the bebates and so on.

I'm also a bit of a Group C fan - I watched my dad's 80s Le Mans videos when my mum thought I was watching Pingu.

Ahh Group C.... Lancia LC2 vs 956/962 - Then the Sauber Merc totally cool sportscars...

Ahh that reminds me... does anyone remember Jochan Mass going ballistic when he was taken out (by who I dont know) at a WSC race at Brands... Just popped into my mind...

I agree with some of the replies - bu I still think that there will be different strategies employed by Audi, Peugeot and AMR...

Can wait for the Race!!!!

[Osella]

I really hope Pug have worked out why they didn't win last year. We all have theories, but I hope THEY know why.

[miguel1810]

Sorry... i know this will come across as very controversial but I hope Peugeot don't win it... I'd love AMR to win (thats my heart) but i'd love to see the R15 win... it would be good... ahh but while writing this I think if Peugeot did win it would be good for the sport... and make Audi sit up or 2010...

Just want a good scrap wih 3 or 4 teams (would also like the Oreca to do well as I love its livery...)

[nickyf1]

I want to see the R15 win, it would be heart breaking to see Audi fail.

Ideally I would love to see the same kind of action we enjoyed at Sebring, and hopefully unlike Sebring I can get past the 10th Hour!

[ss_collins]

Ideally I would love to see the same kind of action we enjoyed at Sebring,

I'm not entirely certain I could take that level of excitement for 24 hours

[miguel1810]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

I'm not entirely certain I could take that level of excitement for 24 hours

I'd love it to be like Sebring this year... Granted I wasn't there in person but it made for good TV viewing - and if Audi & Peugeot scrap at Le Mans plus throw in AMR then it will make for a classic!!!

[nickyf1]

It was while watching the Sebring 12 hours live, that I had my motorsport apifany (sp??). Sportscar racing simply is the da!

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by nickyf1

It was while watching the Sebring 12 hours live, that I had my motorsport apifany (sp??). Sportscar racing simply is the da!

Epiphany.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by nickyf1

It was while watching the Sebring 12 hours live, that I had my motorsport epiphany (sp??). Sportscar racing simply is the da!

Epiphany? Nah. I prefer to have a merguez when I watch racing...... Those epiphanies never taste as good as they look........