Courage C65 - Page 3

Waco Racer · 12 Nov 2003, 22:06 (Ref:781456)

I thought that the LMP2 cars were going to be required to run a production based engine and the Judd/JPX/Zytek style engines were not going to be allowed. If this is the case the LMP2 cars will be slower than the Courage was this past weekend. Also, If the aftermarket style engines are allowed why aren't the Pilbeam, Lola B2K/40, and Lucchini teams running them?

noise boy 2 · 12 Nov 2003, 22:34 (Ref:781476)

Quote:

Originally posted by Fogelhund
Just as a note to this discussion. There is much more to qualifying to be in LMP2, then to be weighing more then 750kg. Carbon fibre tubs will not be allowed.

As it stands much is determined by the quality of the entrants. One must not forget that DBR ran LMP675 cars that would be equivalent of LMP2's, and ran much quicker then GT's would.

That's not entirely true, the new lola B04/40 is a carbon tub car. There aren't any restrictions on materials for new designs. The common theory is that the older SRPII cars that were aluminum/tube frame design would get grandfathered into LMP2 but that hasn't been confirmed yet either. Robert

SALEEN S7R · 13 Nov 2003, 00:58 (Ref:781556)

Quote:

Originally posted by Fogelhund
Wasn't it just a year ago young Mr. Saleen was slagging FIA GT?

Slagging off FIA GT? I dont think so. Its my favourite series and has been for about 4 years now Im afraid, the only series I have ever really "Slagged off" is Grand Am, as most people here have at some time or another. Why would I slag off FIA GT? As many people here know the Spa 24hrs is my favourite endurance race of them all, which also happens to be a FIA GT round.

billnchristy · 13 Nov 2003, 02:40 (Ref:781583)

There are two different restrictor sizes based on production or "racing" engine and differences based on homologated or free:

Free Homologated
3.4L V8 4.0L V8 Nat. asp.
2.0L 6cyl Forbidden Turbo
N/A N/A Diesels

Fab · 13 Nov 2003, 06:02 (Ref:781674)

Well, for what I saw this year at LM in June, for what I saw this week-end on the Bugatti, and when I watch the short-cuts I took on the same Bugatti, it's obvious that some prototypes have a lot of difficulies to follow the Maranellos at the acceleration.

But they are WAY faster (we see that on the movies) in the curves.

If the cars are driven by pilots of the same level, the best LMP2 are faster than the GTS cars ; but the slower LMP2/LMP675 are behind (WRs, Debora, Pilbeam, etc...).

On a lap : it could be close.

On a endurance race, it depends of the reliability of the car : if the LMP2 is reliable, it will be in front of the GTS (see the last week-end). If not (see LM in June), the GTS will take the lead.

Those categories are close on the track ; but the goal is different : ACO made the "small" prototypes category to open it to privateers, to have a race in the race, not to beat the GTS.

For the GT/N-GT cars : let's forget it ; they're, for now, too far behind, and, except with a miracle (I'll accept the idea if necessary), they won't be fast enough to go down the 4' by lap at LM. MUCH to slow in the curves, not enough power to match at the acceleration. If they do, they won't be GT/N-GT any more, but GTS... and it's another story...

Let's wait and see !

Tim Northcutt · 13 Nov 2003, 13:51 (Ref:782057)

To Waco Racer:

Billnchristy placed the same post I would have placed....

To clarify it:

The LMP2 entrants have two engine options or categories they can pursue:

Free:

2.0 L max displacement and 6 cylinders max for Turbos or supercharged engines

3.4 L max. displacement and 8 max cylinders for normally aspirated engines

Homologated:

Max 4.0 L displacement and 8 max cylinders for normally-aspirated engines only

Turbos are forbidden if they go the Homologated Route

Diesels are forbidden in both options...

The Homologated engines also are to conform to GT class rules for air restrictors, etc....

That is in Section 5.1 of the 2004 Regulations

Tim Northcutt · 13 Nov 2003, 17:55 (Ref:782251)

Louis the Shark posted this link in his "why are there no new cars?" thread that may answer some of the questions raised above about what will be an LMP2 and what won't be an LMP2 next year....

It seems, from what this author writes, that the Courage C65 and the DBA Zytek would be LMP1...and he supposedly has gotten this from the guys that are finalizing regs for the ACO...

Read it and see if i understand this correctly....

http://www.sportscarpros.com/cotton...ale/default.htm

gttouring · 13 Nov 2003, 18:27 (Ref:782281)

well i couldn't get the link to work Tim-
I understand that all the LMP675 cars can run as the new LMP1 class, LMP2 (750) will be new cars, and any old 675 cars making adjustments to run as LMP2.
the Lola MG can runLMP1 from what i understood from this forum, so any 675 as well...

Tim Northcutt · 13 Nov 2003, 18:28 (Ref:782285)

Sorry, guys...that link works from the post by Louis the Shark, but not mine because I simply did a copy function to post it over here...

http://www.sportscarpros.com/cotton...ale/default.htm

Hope that will work

Fogelhund · 13 Nov 2003, 18:30 (Ref:782288)

Quote:

Originally posted by noise boy 2
That's not entirely true, the new lola B04/40 is a carbon tub car. There aren't any restrictions on materials for new designs. The common theory is that the older SRPII cars that were aluminum/tube frame design would get grandfathered into LMP2 but that hasn't been confirmed yet either. Robert

http://www.sportscarpros.com/cottonb...le/default.htm

What the ACO would reveal to me was:
For 2004 and 2005
LMP1 = LMP900, LM-GTP, LMP675 (carbon chassis), LMP1, SR1, 900kg
LMP2 = LMP675 (aluminium chassis converted from SR2), LMP2, 750kg

My understanding had been from the LMP675 angle not, the new LMP2 cars, and apologized for that. I am suprised that the B04/40 is carbon, I was led to understand that the owners of a B2K/40 chassis only need to purchase a 'kit' in order to essentially have a B04/40. That doesn't sound quite true now.. then again.

Fogelhund · 13 Nov 2003, 18:36 (Ref:782295)

Quote:

Originally posted by SALEEN S7R
Slagging off FIA GT? I dont think so. Its my favourite series and has been for about 4 years now Im afraid, the only series I have ever really "Slagged off" is Grand Am, as most people here have at some time or another. Why would I slag off FIA GT? As many people here know the Spa 24hrs is my favourite endurance race of them all, which also happens to be a FIA GT round.

I'm just trying to give a hard time in a fun hearted way. No offense meant.

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...ighlight=ratel

Quote:

FIA GT is for amatuer teams and great cars and small time drivers! .....

The driving quality is far superior in the ALMS.

jhansen · 13 Nov 2003, 18:43 (Ref:782305)

Fab, I couldn't agree more with how you summarized that.

SALEEN S7R · 13 Nov 2003, 18:49 (Ref:782314)

Quote:

Originally posted by Fogelhund
I'm just trying to give a hard time in a fun hearted way. No offense meant.

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...ighlight=ratel

No Problem, sorry I just didnt take it as a joke when I initally saw it, still as I know now u wasnt having a go then thats fine. Just a simple misunderstanding.

Tim Northcutt · 13 Nov 2003, 20:02 (Ref:782375)

Question:

Which "Lola" did the American Spirit Racing team announce that they were buying to campaign as LMP2 cars for next season...

Aren't they the B2K/40s?????

According to this "linked" story, it sounds like that Lola wouldn't be allowed...

Now I am confused.....

Tim Northcutt · 13 Nov 2003, 20:17 (Ref:782386)

I'm no longer confused..sorry...

the "New" LMP2s can (and will be) carbon-fiber, but grandfathered cars that would be eligible for this class are the aluminum cars...

billnchristy · 13 Nov 2003, 22:42 (Ref:782567)

why buy them when they are going to obsolete...oh wait, thats right, thats why no one is doing that...

Hopefully they are getting 04/40s...otherwise seems like a big fat money trap...almost like upgrading windows...hmmmm

paul-collins · 13 Nov 2003, 22:51 (Ref:782583)

Quote:

Originally posted by Fogelhund
My understanding had been from the LMP675 angle not, the new LMP2 cars, and apologized for that. I am suprised that the B04/40 is carbon, I was led to understand that the owners of a B2K/40 chassis only need to purchase a 'kit' in order to essentially have a B04/40. That doesn't sound quite true now.. then again.

Quote:

(from dailysportscar)
In an innovative move, the new package will also allow owners of Lola's current B2K/40 model to update to full B04/40 specification by purchasing an update kit made up of the new monocoque and bodywork.

"A typical race car update kit would involve everything except the monocoque, but the new regulations made that impossible, so we had to take another look at how to help our existing sportscar customers build on their investment," observed Lola Group Managing Director Rupert Manwaring. "Our solution allows them to keep as much as possible of the current car whilst meeting the new rules and also taking advantage of the success of our newer LMP675 (EX 257) design."

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