MSV Formula Fords

Walshy · 7 Jan 2005, 23:07 (Ref:1195569)

I have just sent this to Matt Beer and thought it might be an idea to share it with everyone just to get some thoughts. As I said, I didn't want to come across too negative, but, where has this come from. Maybe it has been brewing and I just never heard anything, but with the KofK establishing itself, is this just another thorn in the side of the BRSCC??????

"I have just read the article on ClubFF1600 regarding the above and whilst it's a good positive step forward for our beloved Formula, I would like to know a little more about it first.

If Mr Palmer wants to attract people to this Championship, then I feel he needs to offer a few incentives.

1) Designated test days at his circuits.
2) As he technically owns the circuits, is he going to subsidize the racing and testing?
3) Proper promotion of the category so that it makes it worth while driving all the way to Brands from Manchester.
4) A more even distribution of the prize funds.

From what I have already seen at Oulton since he took over, it didn't look too positive for our Championship there and again this year, the BRSCC have had there allocation of race days reduced again.

Now. JP is a business man and there must be an angle to what he is doing, or, let's face it, he wouldn't do it. So I'll be very interested to see how this develops.

For one. Is it going to be run in conjunction with the BRSCC or against it's own Championships because as the article said, if you dilute the category too much, it will suffer.

I am trying my best not to sound too negative, but this appears to have come from nowhere and I think we should just dip our toe before diving in.

Cheers
Chris Walsh
CT Motorsport
NW Formula Ford Driver.

PS. I'm going to post this on 10 10ths to see what sort of response it gets.

diz · 8 Jan 2005, 00:00 (Ref:1195614)

It was totally news to me Chris. I hadn't even heard any rumours.

I will reserve judgement until I know much more about it, but my initial thoughts are positive.

FF1600 doesn't need anything doing to it, other than increasing it's profile in the wider spectrum of National Racing. Those of us who contribute in CLSS here on TT and eagerly read clubff1600 for upto the minute FF1600 news and reports are already converts.

If those who think that National Single Seaters must have 'manufacturer support' and slots on the 'premier packages' before they are worthy of mention get interested, it is going to be for the overall benefit of FF1600.
Sadly, the majority of these FBMW, FR, F3 type supporters have no 'historical knowledge' of the sport they think they follow and are blissfully unaware of what FF1600 used to be and who started out in it. It has launched many a career. Even TGF did a bit - albeit not too successfully - and it used to be commonplace for half a GP grid to be FF1600 graduates.

BTW - A lot of the current FF1600 drivers aren't interested in the class, or its history either. It is just a convenient class for them to play out in. I'm constantly amazed by how many drivers don't seem to make any attempt at 'following their class'. For example, the likes of Gavin Wills, or Justin Dawkins, front up at Oulton and perform very well and a goodly number of my drivers ask me "Who are they? Where have they come from?"

I don't foresee too many regional drivers deciding to follow a 'National' series. If they wanted to travel the country, they'd be racing in Mono, or F Jedi etc.

As I say, let's wait and see.

Athgoe Racing · 8 Jan 2005, 12:08 (Ref:1195814)

It's hard to know how its going to pan out over the year, but one thing is for sure people are going to follow the money especialy the quick guys and it might attract more karters into the class who would like to get the experence of a few different tracks and learn alot from very experenced and quick drivers, were the likes of FBMW does not provide that ballance of youth and experence and plus FF1600 are a fraction of the cost.

**Stephen Green** · 10 Jan 2005, 10:37 (Ref:1197101)

May I suggest you look at the press release on the MSV website www.motorsportvision.co.uk as it gives a fuller picture of what is planned. The release also says MSV are working in conjunction with the BRSCC and tells you about the prize fund etc.

Ian Sowman · 10 Jan 2005, 10:51 (Ref:1197111)

The press release was reproduced on the other thread on this subject. Note that clubff1600.co.uk now has driver reaction to the news!

keithsekree · 10 Jan 2005, 11:37 (Ref:1197145)

Surely not everyone thinks it's great news that Palmer has come back into the FF scene? He hasn't really got a reputation of giving things back to the racing community, more like trying to take them over for his own personal gain. It seems like FPA is failing after it turned itself into a gentlemens single-seater afternoon run-out, so he'll try and control something else.

Every year since I started racing my budget has more or less stayed the same, and every year it gets further and further away from where it needs to be to compete on a level playing feild. With test days at places like Combe at £250 and race entries at £180ish before all of the other costs involved things are getting crazy. I wouldn't say that big prize funds are a help to anyone other than the teams. The 'minnows' in theory pay for the prize funds just for the big budget teams to win the money and then end up even further away from those people wanting some good CLUB level racing. But thats just my opinion ;o) keith

**Stephen Green** · 10 Jan 2005, 12:26 (Ref:1197166)

Well, had JP not taken over the circuits from IPG/Octagon you might not have anywhere to race now!

keithsekree · 10 Jan 2005, 12:38 (Ref:1197184)

I know there are many arguments for and against, Ive got mixed feelings too as I know extra publicity helps everyone. Failing JP's circuits there would always be Castle Combe and Asda car parks!!

**Stephen Green** · 10 Jan 2005, 12:41 (Ref:1197186)

I would imagine there will be some further information and publicity from both MSV and the BRSCC. Of course you could always contact either party for more information?

As FF1600 has a good following amongst not only drivers like yourself as well as the marshalling community, I hope the new initiative is a success as I would love to see a return to some excellent grids and great racing along the lines of the old FF Festival.

Ian Sowman · 10 Jan 2005, 13:04 (Ref:1197208)

I think Steve Burns is sending out registration forms this week, and they will also be available at the NEC. These will of course include all the information you need.

Kicking-back · 10 Jan 2005, 13:40 (Ref:1197255)

Quote:

Originally Posted by keithsekree

It seems like FPA is failing after it turned itself into a gentlemens single-seater afternoon run-out, so he'll try and control something else.

FPA's not failing.

It's very successful as a gentlemens' single-seater afternoon-run out.

BillyT · 10 Jan 2005, 19:35 (Ref:1197529)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

FPA's not failing.

It's very successful as a gentlemens' single-seater afternoon-run out.

I think FPA is quite good, its resonable and offers a variety of drivers such as Kennard . Jenkins and Edwards. Then you have the older business men who want to have a good race In my opinion FPA is a t its strongest for a long time.

Kicking-back · 10 Jan 2005, 19:50 (Ref:1197541)

I agree, btracer. And it's always got a full grid.

foreversideways · 10 Jan 2005, 21:40 (Ref:1197627)

I think FPA is a very successfull Formula and has found a market both with older drivers looking to compete in a well organised, competitive championship with one or two European trips thrown in, and with younger guys looking to step up. I have investigated the costs and they are a fraction of a BMW/Renault/Zetec budget. The series is well organised and i am sure JP makes money out of it, as he will out of the FF1600 championship. That is not a bad thing as self interest could be better than no interest. It is allways worth remembering that nothing in motor sport is cheap !!. However JP's increasing profile in British Motor sport has up to now been good for it. (Waits to be shot down in flames)

PaulSands · 11 Jan 2005, 15:07 (Ref:1198175)

Strikes me FPA is as good a place as many to learn racecraft. Because of the wide range of talent and desire present on the usually good grids you gte to mix it with young chargers, old hands who arent ready to give way just yet and the odd "gentleman" that you have to treat with the necessary respect when lapping

FF1600 of course is a better place toall of the above

The MSV championship seems to be gathering a degree of momentm and I would expect quite a few more announcements of teams/ drivers commiting to it after this weekend. I have a nagging doubt that one of the existing championships is going to take a bit of a hit and I cant help think it's going to be the Star of the Midlands

Ian Sowman · 11 Jan 2005, 15:13 (Ref:1198178)

I'm hearing very encouraging noises regarding people looking to enter the MSV championship - nothing confirmed yet, but keep your eye on the website!

Walshy · 12 Jan 2005, 00:18 (Ref:1198607)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian Sowman

I'm hearing very encouraging noises regarding people looking to enter the MSV championship - nothing confirmed yet, but keep your eye on the website!

That's good then. Isn't it? We don't really know what it entails yet, so let's see after the weekends show. I know I'll be asking some questions.

Again, I don't want to sound on a downer about this and I really do hope that it comes on in leaps and bounds and pushes Formula Ford to where it should be. I think we all agree that there is nothing like a full Formula Ford grid as a spectacle.

I dare say Steve will have most of the answers to our questions, but this has relatively, come out of the blue and on the eve of the new season. People may have already committed to what they are doing, who knows.

The major factor in this could be the dilution of other championships. Do we know a pricing structure for the races? Are they going to be cheaper than the Regional Championship races?

Let's just say as an example, the grids aren't what they expected for the MSV Championship, but the regional series are thriving, mainly the MSV circuit based Championships. Whose to say, that all of a sudden, there is cut price racing on offer in the MSV Championship to swell it's grids. This is surely going to be at the cost of the regular Championships.

On top of this, has anyone seen a long term plan for this? If the grids are healthy for it and the regional championships are at a point of collapse, what then happens if the regional Championships have their plugs pulled and in a couple of years, JP deems it non profitable and shuts up shop. No Championship.

I have to stress that I am not being negative, honest. Just realistic. Everyone is supposedly saying they fancy a go at this new championship, but with absolutely no backbone or structure to it yet. All we know is that there is going to be another championship to enter. Indeed, if the BRSCC has been planning this for sometime with JP, could they not have kept their members abrest of what the plans were or at least have mailed us with details once it was announced rather than allow the likes of me to come to my own conclusions.

Ian Sowman · 12 Jan 2005, 09:03 (Ref:1198761)

Just speculation, but I imagine the pricing structure for race entries would be the same as for all other BRSCC championships, and it will be covered under the same entry fee as the rest of the regions. I've seen nothing to suggest that would not be the case.

And no Chris, there isn't another championship to enter. As I've said before, it is basically the Southern championship with a few more races bolted on, which as a result (and with the prize fund and extra promotion) might appeal to a few more people than it would otherwise have done. The calendar has been deliberately structured with only one race at OP so it doesn't dilute NW FF1600.

Redracer77 · 12 Jan 2005, 09:30 (Ref:1198791)

Sorry not really looked at the dates but is the Oulton Park round during a NWFF meeting? If it is stand alone then I expect it to be with FPA and on the full circuit? If so then that would attract a huge field as the NWFF don't have a date on the full circuit this year and is always popular. Expect entries to be in the 40's (note both pre and post run together in SFF)

Ian Sowman · 12 Jan 2005, 09:41 (Ref:1198796)

It isn't at a NWFF round so may well be with FPA (although I haven't seen any confirmed dates for that yet).

Don't forget that regular MSV championship competitors will get priority over NW FF1600 'visitors'.

Redracer77 · 12 Jan 2005, 10:06 (Ref:1198817)

why?

Would it not class as KOK round?

They would need to get entries in on time then!!

Ian Sowman · 22 Jan 2005, 21:32 (Ref:1207396)

Peter Dempsey has switched to MSV FF1600 (from the mooted UK FF) for 2005.

Full story: http://www.clubff1600.co.uk/news/new...asp?NewsID=224

BillyT · 23 Jan 2005, 10:39 (Ref:1207730)

Wrok commitments? I don't think so. The MSV championship is begining to look a little better than the national one.

Redracer77 · 23 Jan 2005, 14:53 (Ref:1207913)

The MSV is the National one!!!

Ian Sowman · 23 Jan 2005, 15:01 (Ref:1207919)

I thought he meant UKFF (Zetec)?

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