Asian Le Mans Series

[Juntos]

Face it, Shanghai Circuit was made for F1. Any other racing series can't afford the rental fees. End of story.

[Purist]

NBU38, given the timing of when the AsLMS is almost certainly going to be, perhaps Bernie considers it too close to the Japanese GP, in which case, Suzuka would be out. Shanghai is probably too expensive, as has been stated repeatedly.

I understand not wanting to run Valencia: Ricardo Tormo, Adria, and Hungaroring. To that list, I would add Oschersleben, Nogaro, Le Mans Bugatti, Chengdu, and Sandown Int'l Circuit.

However, I see Okayama (TI Circuit Aida from the F1 days) as quite acceptable, and don't really understand your distaste for it.

As for theoretically acceptable venues in the region, I would pose these:
Japan
1. Autopolis
2. Fuji
3. Okayama
4. Sugo
5. Suzuka
China
1. Shanghai
2. Zhuhai
Indonesia
1. Sentul
Australia
1. Adelaide*
2. Eastern Creek
3. Melbourne*
4. Philip Island
5. Surfers Paradise*
New Zealand
1. Hampton Downs

There are a few others I have thought about but might be a bit too tight; part of me would like to see LMPs and GTs at Pukekohe, which is a FAST circuit, and longer than Lime Rock. My perspective is a little different of course, since I'm used to the US circuits, which are often shorter than the F1 circuits of Europe, or just about anywhere really.

I will also say that Japan has some other circuits that would be long enough, and that might have adequate facilities, but that may be too tight or just not very interesting to race on; Motegi, Sendai, and Tokachi in particular come to mind.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by Purist

given the timing of when the AsLMS is almost certainly going to be, perhaps Bernie considers it too close to the Japanese GP, in which case, Suzuka would be out.

True. That's very sad indeed, given that February-April is a bad place for Asian LMS races and Suzuka really deserves such a race.

Originally Posted by Purist

As for theoretically acceptable venues in the region, I would pose these:
[list]

In addition to being good circuits, the ACO should choose venues located close to big cities, so they can attract more public than the usual bunch of fundamentalists. That slashes several of the tracks you listed.

Originally Posted by Purist

My perspective is a little different of course, since I'm used to the US circuits, which are often shorter than the F1 circuits of Europe, or just about anywhere really.

ALMS and Grand-Am Series can use short circuits because their races don't last 1000km, as planned (I guess) for the Asian series.

[Purist]

Ahem, PLM is 1000 MILES, and is run on a circuit of 2.54 miles (Road Atlanta). That makes it shorter than all but two of the circuits that LMS has used: Jarama (2.392 miles) and Valencia, Ricardo Tormo (2.489 miles). And this season, Laguna Seca (2.238 miles) is hosting a 6-hour race for the ALMS.

I'm not sure which of those circuits would be "too far" from big cities. Not to mention, what would be your definition of a "big city"? I mean, Road America is a couple of hours away from any major cities in its region, but it gets good crowds.

Bullet train service, at least in Japan, should make any of those five circuits not too much of a hassle to get to. Also, if you market well, and get people excited about the race, they will travel quite some distance to see it, if you've done your job right. Just to clue you in, Road America is probably the closest ALMS venue to where I live, and that's a roughly 13-hour drive each way; I made the trip with family for the 4-hour, ALMS races in 2007 and 2008.

I will add that there is a proposal, no details as of yet, for a circuit in Nelson, New Zealand. Given the designer, I suspect it will be a Grade 2 circuit, which would make it theoretically an option of the AsLMS.

[Purist]

I've done a more thorough run through of possible venues in East/Southeast Asia and Oceania. I'm only going with permanent circuits this time, and will defer to others as to proximity to large cities.

Anyway, here goes:
Australia
1. Eastern Creek
2. Philip Island
3. Sandown Nat'l Circuit
China
1. Shanghai
2. Zhuhai
Indonesia
1. Sentul
Japan
1. Autopolis
2. Fuji
3. Okayama
4. Sugo
5. Suzuka
Korea
1. Injae* (proposal)
2. Korean Int'l Circuit
New Zealand
1. Hampton Downs* (3.8km loop still under construction)
Philippines
1. Subic Bay

I also saw some that could have potential, but are rather short and/or may not quite have adequate facilities at the moment. Yeah, maybe I am crazy, but then, I'm not expecting any of you to have these circuits on your lists either.
Australia
1. Amaroo Park (fast, if Indy Cars can run Brands "Indy" Circuit...)
2. Symmons Plains (fast, move a few walls back, start on the back stretch)
Japan
1. Tsukuba (simple, fast, good facilities)
New Zealand
1. Pukekohe (very fast, move a few walls back)
2. Ruapuna (simple, fast, good facilities)
3. Teretonga (simple, fast, good facilities)
4. Taupo (known circuit that is up to Grade 2 standard due to A1GP)
Thailand
1. Bira Int'l Circuit (fast, decent facilities, honors great, under-recognized driver)

Fast is relative, and "fast" on a shorter track is different than "fast" at someplace like Road Atlanta. That being said, I would expect current LMP1s to qualify at or above 100mph average at every circuit on my second list. And i could definitely see current LMP1s running Pukekohe with the same sort of average speeds we see at Sebring.

Hopefully, there is some food for thought in here, and anyway, it was fun finding all of these places. Carry on; I really shouldn't hi-jack the discussion quite so much, I know.

[Purist]

Jeez, I meant to include these in that second list.
Korea
1. Ansan (fast, interesting, technical layout, decent facilities)
2. Taebaek (like a mini Dijon with a couple possible extensions, decent facilities)

Ok, I need to step back, and yes, I realize that Subic Bay would technically be a temporary circuit as it's on an airfield. Oh well.

[Japanese Samurai]

Tsukuba is very dangerous circuit. No escape zone.
1994 JTCC Tsukuba round movie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utvT3vQuYDc

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai

Tsukuba is very dangerous circuit.

Oh ..... like Monaco !!!

Man , that video is a mess to say the least .

[Purist]

Hence the name of the video, and jeez, that announcer is way too enthused by all the spins and crashes!

I wonder which category of bikes run at Tsukuba, seeing as how there is a chicane at the circuit for them.

Even I can conclude here that, without an extension, Tsukuba is probably the least suitable of any of the above, and I'll knock that one out of my considerations. Besides, I already have five much more reasonable Japanese circuits on the roster.

[GT2-R]

Maybe a stupid question but why not Sepang?

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Purist

I mean, Road America is a couple of hours away from any major cities in its region, but it gets good crowds.

[AndrewF31]

Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai

Tsukuba is very dangerous circuit. No escape zone.
1994 JTCC Tsukuba round movie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utvT3vQuYDc

Lol, looked like Richard Petty drove a Honda Civic and hit Steve Soper in his Fina-Warsteiner BMW.
The start of that crash looks like Synchronized swimming, or synchronized aquaplanning.

And that first corner is suicide. I like how the stricken BMW served as a tyre barrier for the rest of the race.

[Purist]

Fogel, you'll have to pardon me, but I can't tell quite what the emoticon is supposed to mean.

GT2-R, with how things look, it seems that the AsLMS is going to be concentrated in Eastern/Southeastern Asia and Oceania. As such, I focused on venues in that region (albeit quite a large region).

Perhaps I will compile a list of more Western Asian and Middle Eastern venues so we can see what that landscape looks like if this ever became a truly continental series. Of course, it's a long distance to travel from Japan and Australia, but also, a number of those Middle Eastern venues are F1 circuits, which gets you into the same high rent problems we see at Shanghai.

[Purist]

Here goes on the more Western Asian and Middle Eastern circuits for AsLMS:
Bahrain
1. Sakhir
Georgia
1. Rustavi Ring (needs surrounding facilities to be rebuilt)
India
1. Jaypee Group Circuit* (not sure if this has gone beyond the proposal stage yet)
Kazakhstan
1. Kazakhstan Motor City
Malaysia
1. Johor
2. Sepang
Qatar
1. Losail
Saudi Arabia
1. Reem Int'l Circuit
Sri Lanka
1. Ceylon Autodrome* (proposal)
Turkey
1. Istanbul Park
UAE
1. Dubai Autodrome
2. Yas Marina Circuit

BTW, does anyone here know anything about the Beirut Hariri street circuit that was used in 1997?

[rich07]

Originally Posted by Purist

BTW, does anyone here know anything about the Beirut Hariri street circuit that was used in 1997?

Sorry no, but you've got my curiousity, anyone know of which cars raced on it? Intrigued.. Could've been the same street track that a group of hopeful locals were hoping to host FIA GT on.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Originally Posted by AndrewF31

Lol, looked like Richard Petty drove a Honda Civic and hit Steve Soper in his Fina-Warsteiner BMW.
The start of that crash looks like Synchronized swimming, or synchronized aquaplanning.

And that first corner is suicide. I like how the stricken BMW served as a tyre barrier for the rest of the race.

You would have thought someone would have reacted the third or fourth time it was hit by other cars.

[pablocomics]

The asian series will have a tiny callendar next years and there are one strong reason, at this moment there are not solid resistance team structures in asia. Japan is more interested on the japanesse GT championship and out of japan and at this moment there are no serious team on resistence.

The only one solution (maybe) is merge the lms series with the all japan GT some races but probably the japan gt teams won´t be interested on that because they doesn´t need it.

Posibilities for new circuits...., that´s heavy. The mid-asian circuits are too far from japan, they have money but no teams, and japan has teams with low budget (bad combination for long travels).

Malaysia is more near to japan but without a Lotus teams there won´t be any races there. Korea is close to japan, that´s a likely but there are no tradition and there are no Korean teams.

...and China is just there for the works teams (AUDI).

Believe me, the asian series won´t have more than 2 or 3 races for the next 5 years and i´m not sure if the asian series will survive all this time.

[NaBUru38]

As pablocomics says, the Asian Le Mans races are made for LMP1 teams. They could have any backfield, as long as they aren't gliding chicanes - Japanese Super GTs would be awesome, but I'm not sure whether they would accept being second-rank.

[Purist]

Aren't you getting the AsLMS and the LMIC confused now?

i simply produced lists of potential venues for the sake of seeing what is out there, without real concern for how the series is actually going to develop in the near term. Neither was it a list of all the places I necessarily want to be on the schedule.

[NaBUru38]

Actually no, Purist: Since the Asian LMS seems to be having a 1-3 race calendar for the next seasons, the only purposes of the series are to market manufacturers competing in LMP1 in Asia, and to allow major LMP1 privateers race against them. GTs don't matter: they could come from the Japanese Super GTs, the Asian GT championships, the Euro LMS, a mixture of them or just any fast-enough field. LMP2 could work as an off-(European) season just like GP2 Asia and the European GP2. So I keep what I said: "the Asian Le Mans races are made for LMP1 teams".

Were it me, my Asian picks for the LMIC or whatever it gets called by 2011 are Suzuka (if the F1 GP conflict is resolved) and Shanghai. After them, I would easily accept Fuji, Motegi and Sepang as Asian LMS venues. The remaining circuits in that region seem to me too tight for LMPs. Any of the four Middle Eastern circuits or Phillip Island would be fine too, but they may get too expensive to travel for Japanese teams, who should be a major target for the series.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Actually no, Purist: Since the Asian LMS seems to be having a 1-3 race calendar for the next seasons, the only purposes of the series are to market manufacturers competing in LMP1 in Asia, and to allow major LMP1 privateers race against them. GTs don't matter: they could come from the Japanese Super GTs, the Asian GT championships, the Euro LMS, a mixture of them or just any fast-enough field. LMP2 could work as an off-(European) season just like GP2 Asia and the European GP2. So I keep what I said: "the Asian Le Mans races are made for LMP1 teams".

Were it me, my Asian picks for the LMIC or whatever it gets called by 2011 are Suzuka (if the F1 GP conflict is resolved) and Shanghai. After them, I would easily accept Fuji, Motegi and Sepang as Asian LMS venues. The remaining circuits in that region seem to me too tight for LMPs. Any of the four Middle Eastern circuits or Phillip Island would be fine too, but they may get too expensive to travel for Japanese teams, who should be a major target for the series.

Sorry, as to what is what here, I am with Purist. As to where they will/could run .
The AsLMS is a full LM affiliate series on its own (or so they are trying).
The LMIC is a P-1 Multi-Continent Championship which is being run in all 3 LM affiliate series.
This is also a way to get the top P-1 teams to run in each series while cross promoting all of them! How well that will work, or possibly the opposite, is yet to be seen.






L.P.

[Mal]

There is an article on DSC with a strong rumour that Nissan, Toyota and Honda are considering fielding GT entries in the 2011 Asian Le Mans series - if true this is a major development!

[TF110]

With their GT500 SuperGT cars. That's a bit weird and kind of iffy. It would be cool though.

[NaBUru38]

If they want to field a nice number, I'd let them in.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Mal

There is an article on DSC with a strong rumour that Nissan, Toyota and Honda are considering fielding GT entries in the 2011 Asian Le Mans series - if true this is a major development!

If they weren't going to field gt500 cars, nissan may be able to make a gt1 gtr into gt2 spec, and toyota may have something they can do with the LFA, don't know what honda would do though.