DMN..BARC Vs Local clubs

[bdwoody]

i dont see the problem here by me joining the barc sec i will be saving £ 65 rather than having full racing membership of barc HQ. this would not have been brought to my attention had the guys and gals who run DMN not taken the decision that they have .

[Al Weyman]

I remember the one occasion I had a run out with DMN Chezza made a point of asking for my BARC membership card.

[Robert Morris]

Thats handy woody now more gin and tonics saturday night

[Eric Falce]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

I remember the one occasion I had a run out with DMN Chezza made a point of asking for my BARC membership card.

I can remember that far back Al,good job it was on th GP circuit and not the club at Brands.

[Tim Wilkinson]

It's a shame that the MSA's answer to any problem appears to include the competitor spending money. A little bit of lateral thinking wouldn't go amiss these days.

Money's tight for most these days, and while those who do a number of events are affected, it's to a far smaller extent (average cost and all that) than for those of us who are struggling but would still like to do just a couple of events. For us that extra £35 or £50 can make all of the difference. For example I'm a member of an MSA club (I occasionally passenger in Landy trials), have a car that's up-to-date (safety) and ready-to-go, and could just about beg or borrow a tow down to Brands (would be Lydden as it was cheaper until idiocy took over there) and ask everyone I know to put all their birthday and christmas "donations" together to cover an entry fee and license renewal and I could be on the grid at least once this year. When you look at it like that, £35 makes a large difference - equivalent to a 15-20% price rise.

In fact, it's the kind of difference (combined with the general attitude of the MSA - note MSA and not BARC - , and some of the "well don't race at all, then" brigade) that makes me want to not give the MSA my license fee, sod racing altogether, and get a bloody Wii.

MSA = Must Shaft All?

[Copperbottom]

Originally Posted by Tim Wilkinson

MSA = Must Shaft All?

DON'T!! I got into trouble on the FI section for putting F.I.A= FERRARI INTERNATIONAL ASSISTANCE

Seriously though,racing is expensive and most other championships charge £££s for registrations and entry fees whereas it's not the case with the DMN.
BARC are only the messengers for the msa don't shoot them.
I remember years ago having to join each motor club that held an event that I wanted to do.

Most people who are commited to their motor club are hardly going to join the barc so that they can race in DMN and not the one that they're already members of so the loss of members thing is hardly relevant is it? In this case the only time it would affect local clubs is if you only joined so that you can race in DMN.

[Al Weyman]

Tim as I wrote on the reccession thread, thats the big problem IMHO the massive outlay to get started especially these days when you seriously may only want to pict two or three meetings. Unless you are more or less committed for a season its just not worth the £300 odd for getting going each season. I have asked one or two guys I know who have cars in mothballs and they would like to come out for the odd meeting but alas the system just does not accomadate this. Shame as it should although in CTCRC we do have a deal with BARC for a three meeting taster membership which is all in about £25 I believe so maybe you could push for something like that.

[Tim Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Suze

...........................................

Anyway, I think the point is being missed in that this MSA rule has been around for a while, it's not just been brought in, it just so happens that the MSA have picked up on it not being applied now [ie people saying "well in these times of recession / credit crunch etc why can't they help to keep costs down" - the rule has been there since before that all started].

But now should be an ideal oppurtunity to start (or continue?) looking at ways to lower (or limit increases) in costs borne by clubs, circuits, marshalls, competitors.

My feeling is that motorsport in Britain is too bloated and over-structured, with numerous conflicts of interest between organisation levels that create difficulties, raise costs, and ultimately reduce participation. I appreciate that each level is doing the best for themselves, and occasionally has a common goal, but as a whole the industry has plenty of room for improvements in efficiency.

[Tim Falce]

Offending posts removed so lets keep it friendly please, that goes for everybody. Thanks.

[phansa88]

Have a friend who races a sidecar, he and friends don't race in the uk ,due to club fees, registration fees,entry fees,etc.
they now all race in europe its cheaper for them to have along weekend and race there than compete over here.
plus they have insurance how long before we are in the same boat?

[Al Weyman]

Doubt it will be cheaper anymore with the £ Euro situation. It sucks I know but I also know an organising club such as CTCRC, my old club Racing Saloon Car Club etc do have expenses and they have to be met somehow, how do you suggest they raise the money?

[phansa88]

Al i don't know the answer but a few surgestion,s from all involved in motor sport would go a long way to help reduce costs for all. Regs,champship and series entrys via email or club web sites no need for post costs.Msa to open licence data to club secretarys to check photo licences on line, perhaps this could include a club membership data as well. so at meetings its all there on screen checked.
Also if all involved in motor sport tried to reduce cost a little there might just be a few willing to come back in and a few might just have a go,this would be more grids lower costs to all this includeds the ciruits as well.
anyone got other surgestion ?
no need then big club or small club issue its on a data base.

[Al Weyman]

Well I do agree on cost cuting excercises as I personally think BARC waste an enourmous amount of money on labour, copying and postage on entry forms for example I have to say as well the coloured magazine is not really worth having and an e-version would do me. I am registered with them for 4 Championships all via CTCRC but when I forward my registration I get 4 identical folders containing identical entry forms which is just plain silly and not only money wasting but enviromentally unfriendly. They are trying to address entries on line and have a new system shortly to go live so we shall see but its one area money could be saved.

In our club I have suggested doing more by email especially the club magazine but I am told (and I know its a fact) that some members and not all old uns would not know how to turn a computer on let alone receive an email. Maybe I will suggest at the next committee meeting which as PHTC co-ordinator I will attend unpaid of course and with no expenses paid that maybe we could have a two tier membership with a reduction for those that opt to have all correspondence sent on line. Just a thought.

I will say a lot of us do things within clubs unpaid and that includes updating the website attending meetings etc. but the clubs (well at least CTCRC) do put money back in and if you had ever been to one of the members and friends bar-b-ques you would see. They also buy equiment like a Head Quarters vehicle and digital weighing scales so I am happy enough to pay a membership fee.

[Tim Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

It sucks I know but I also know an organising club such as CTCRC, my old club Racing Saloon Car Club etc do have expenses and they have to be met somehow, how do you suggest they raise the money?

Well..... is it possible that there's too many clubs, all doing much the same job, and that costs could be cut if they joined forces, or the admin was moved somewhere else?

Something the MSA rule enforcement has highlighted is the cost of running in more than one series or championship. While this doesn't affect those happy to commit to a whole season with one club, it has a big bearing on the costs of those wanting to pick and choose across several clubs - either for reasons of cost, time, or preferring a local circuit. I think that rather than getting in more money for the clubs, it actually acts as a barrier to people racing, and so isn't good for the sport as a whole.

For example, I could have 4 weekends free when there's a club visiting Brands Hatch that I could race with (entirely possible with a 20-year old lightly modified saloon). But to join those 4 clubs could cost me an extra £400+ (estimated on BARC, BRSCC, Toyos etc) when I'm not really gaining much from it. I'm more likely to drop at least one, possibly more, meetings than run all 4 with extra cost.

IMO CTCRC have the right idea with their reduced charge for up to 3 meetings. Is it not possible for other clubs to arrange something similar?

Or.... the MSA organise and administer all championships and series centrally, with a pro-rata fee for admin, insurance etc for each meeting entered.
Or.... circuits organise championships locally, possibly in association with other circuits, and (shock horror) promote the meetings as it impacts their own bottom-line.

The ideas may be less than fully fleshed out (I recognise that some clubs offer more for the membership fee than just a laminated bit of card), but I don't feel the current system works anywhere near well enough, and it's to the detriment of some racers as well as those who give their time for the clubs.

[Al Weyman]

Could be too many clubs I don't know but the problem is getting big clubs like BARC to sit down, write regs and launch a series that you may be interested in competing in, its just not going to happen. I sat down for many many weeks writing regs for the ModProds and i cannot begin to tell you how many hours work that was. To expect someone else who is employed by a club to is being unrealistic. Its the same as Rod's DMN I am sure him and Graham have spent many hours on the project to get it where it is today and what ever way you look at it there are expenses involved. I won't say they cannot be trimmed I was only charging £25 for Racing Saloon Car Club membership 12 years ago but there you go I did not offer as much as CTCRC membership currently does. In the CTCRC at least we run no less than 5 different championships/series and the club membership covers you for the lot.