When is a Bentley nearly an Audi?

[mikec]

With Audi and Bentley being owned by the same group.... VW and the fact that ultimately the engine in the Bently is a derivative of that used in the successful Audi cars, just how "True British Bentley" was the winner of Le Mans this year? Or are the engineers at Audi quietly grinning to themselves?

[Mike Holmes]

Ah!! someone has finally spotted it, the chassis was also an Audi which was dropped because they felt that an open car was quicker on pit stops and it would not need a screen change if something happened. Still everyone cheered the "British Bentleys"

[Tim Falce]

I had the same feelings. A friend from Japan asked if I had got excited at Bentley winning, and he was dissapointed when I pointed out that probably the only thing Bentley on the cars was the name.

[Dave Brand]

So I'm not the only one who can't get excited about a 'Bentley' winning Le Mans! If VW's marketing department had different priorities it could just as well have been a Skoda or a SEAT...........

[Cynic]

A Bentley engineer I spoke to at a jobs fair a couple of years ago grudgingly admitted that the cars design team "may have taken some inspiration" from the Audi R8C from 1999. To be fair to Bentley, this years car really bore little resemblance to the first batch of XP8's. The original car was pretty much the R8C tub modified to take VW's W10 (or was it W16?) engine before the project got canned, which was why it had such a large rear end. This years car had a lot of revisions to the Bodywork and Chassis to allow for the fact that they were sticking with the Audi drivetrain.

[JAG]

In this day and age almost every car manufactuer is owned by Dainmler, Ford, GM, or Fiat. So is a Volvo/Aston Martin etc. realy a Ford, is a Lamborghini a VW?

Although the first Speed 8 was similar to the British run (and designed?) R8C, this years car was completely new and bore no resemblance to previous Audis.

[gttouring]

isn't everything just a name now and the emotional attachment to it, poeple buy into a brand to be part of the group really, ferrari or Porsche? they are both so spectacular which one is better? well depends on so much mostly how you feel about it...note the Vette vs. marenello thread- USA pushrod vs. Italian DOHC?
nah they are not even Chevy vs. Ferrari, or anything the Marenllo is a British Prodrive built derivative- the Vette is a Pratt and Miller USA priavte company built semi-mono and tube whatever, the cars look like the proper road goers but aren't in the slightest but name and profile.
So Bentley Speed 8 won! It is british by name and Audi by design it is still now a bentley and therefore british.
I know A rose by any other name ....

[chris24]

OK, so the RTN team that designed and built the Bentley are owned by Audi and it uses a version of the Audi engine, but who cares, it was still designed and built in the UK and badged as Bentley. The Audi was built in Germany and the Bentley built in the UK. So it may have carried some design influences from the R8C, but it wass a totally new chassis. You show me one sports racing car these days that hasn't taken influences from another car. Except maybe the Panoz! Who cares, both the R8c and 2001-2002 Bentleys are still the best looking race cars I have seen for ages.
So I for one was proud to support the team as British entry, along with my local manufacturer TVR and of course the Prodrive Ferrari team.

[H16]

It was made painfully obvious when they pulled the Joest guys in to pit the car. I mean, we can't find BRITISH people to pit the seven car? That was only confirmation on what everyone knew all along, that was a green Audi.

I mean really, did the Joest boys HAVE to be there?

[JAG]

But then again almost every Japanease F1, WRC, sportscar team is run from the UK or Europe with UK.European staff. Isn't Renault F1 based in the UK.

[Aysedasi]

I think you're all spoilsports.

You have to cheer something, don't you? I'm definitely with chris24 on this one. Whatever the lineage of the Bentleys and whoever they were crewed by and whoever the mechanics were, a good old British name won the damn race and an Audi (or a machine with an Audi badge, depending how you want to look at it) didn't. As far as I'm concerned, that was the result I wanted and I was mighty pleased.

[Fogelhund]

I'm with Aysedasi & chris24 on this one as well. The car is badged a Bentley, has the right colour and is a design unique to itself. So what if it shares some parts. Congrats to Bentley, member of the VAG group for winning LM.

As an aside, one must also note that both original Audi's had SIGNIFICANT involvement from Porsche engineering. We still call the Audi's such, and rightly so.

[Aysedasi]

A bit like the two Porsches that won in the late 90's - the chassic was a TWR Jaguar........

[mikec]

Some very good points . It's just a damn shame Bentley couldn't do this by themselves. I suppose we must learn to distinguish between Bentley Motor Car Company who have sush a fine track record in the early days at Le Mans, and the "European" Team Bentley that run the Bentley racing team. Two very different entities linked only by a name.

That said. A spectacular car, driven by some superb drivers to gain an outstandingly clinical victory at Le Mans.

[rdjones]

OK we all know its an Audi in disgise, but at the end of the car was built in Britan, design in Britan, run by a British team, and Bentley are British (OK owned by Germans) so IMO the Bentley is British......

[TimD]

Look at it the other way - Audi may own Bentley, but that simply means that Bentley is no longer a part of Rolls Royce. There was a works Bentley effort in 1930, then in 1931 the great recession struck, receivers were called in and Rolls Royce bought the company because it was a dangerous competitor and abolished the racing programme.

It took seventy years of waiting, but we Bentley fans got our way again - the beloved marque is no longer under the thumb of Rolls Royce and it can build sports cars again. So what if there is Audi money behind it - it's no longer a Rolls Royce hiding under the greatest badge in the world. It's a racing Bentley, and I for one was proud to be there to cheer it home.

[MulsanneMike]

I too am tired of the claim that the Bentley is meerly and Audi with a top. RTN is an English concern. And while the Speed 8 did benefit from the R8C development, don't forget that RTN did that as well. So you can actually sort of turn it around and say the R8C was an English car, more Bentley (in the future) than Audi...

[H16]

That might be a strech. The R8C was an Audi on the entry list, now it was a Bentley? Ok...

I love the Bentely concept, it was a great looking car and I'm glad a GTP won. But I can't say that it was anything more than Joest Audi in different clothes. Thats my opinion. If someone wants to consider it a great english triumph, thats wonderful for them.

[SL]

I might be cynical but:-

Bentley's 'favoured number car' should be car 8, after the famous car that carried Bentley's fortunes. Crewed by 'Brit' drivers
Joest's 'favoured number car' should be car 7 after those Porsche that carried Joest's fortunes. Crewed by ex Audi driver.

No, it was just those two long pit stops that lost the race for no8.

Simon

[Bluebottle]

If you want to be like that, why not go the whole hog and refer to the VW Speed 8 and the privateer VWR8's
Come on people, lets get a bit of perspective here- has anyone mentioned the Prodrive Fiat?
The Speed8 was built and tested here in the UK by a UK based team who were contracted by the VW-Audi-Group. The VW Audi Group own the rights to the Bentley name. Along with the name comes all it's history and the rights to make new 'history' for that name. Bentley has never ceased to exist as a car builder.

Above all, the Bentley looked great, sounded great and no-one can deny it went very well and did the job of winning the race.

And it wasn't a Rolls-Royce!!

Stop whinging.

[Adam43]

Originally posted by SL
No, it was just those two long pit stops that lost the race for no8.

And some absolute magic from Tom (throughout all his stints).

[Adam43]

Originally posted by Bluebottle
Above all, the Bentley looked great, sounded great and no-one can deny it went very well and did the job of winning the race.

It did look great and was worth support just for that. (In fact I have done this before. I have even supported Toyota because of how there car looked compared with the opposition!).

and there are all those other reasons to be happy...

[dretceterini]

and Kia is owned in part by Hyundai who is owned in part by Mitsubishi who is owned in part by Daimler-Benz...

and the beat goes on...

[RacingManiac]

As someguy mentioned earlier, the R8C, although an Audi, was developed under different group of people(compared to R8R, which is Joest) and was basically made in Britain. The EXP Speed 8 in 2001 and 2002 was a evolution of the R8C(the British Audi...more or less...), with completely new chassis and whatnot, and this time properly badged with a British brand. And then the 2003 Speed 8 was a further evolution of the car.

Critically, a lot of the part of the car was completely different to Joest's approach. For example, the quick change rearend on the R8 was never on the Bentley, infact, from the getgo the Bentley sported a completely different suspension design(the torsion bar vs the spring...). The root of the 2 car might be able to trace back to the same year under the same brand, but they have departed way quite dramatically since then.....

About the pitcrew, I am pretty sure the top brass of the VW want a car that they are certain will not screw up, so they slotted the finely tuned crew of the Joest team plus the hotshot drivers from the Joest team. IMO I'd name those the "experienced" crew(they've been racing 3 years through 3 seasons, generally more seasoned and well trained as well). And the no.8 will be the team that'll carry the British pride. And in the end, the finely honed crew of the ex-Joest Audi people paid off.....delivering another flowless race....

[Aysedasi]

I think you all need to realise that we are living in 2003, not the 1920s (30's, 40's etc. etc.). A great deal has changed in racing since those days.