AGR has fallen soooo far

Bluewolf · 20 May 2006, 01:41 (Ref:1614601)

Everyone knew it was going to be a much more competetive season this year with all teams running the honda, but who knew AGR was going to fall completely off the radar. The Penske and Ganassi teams are running at such a higher level than the team that owned '05 that AGR is not even mentioned much anymore -- Herta ran some excellent laps early last week when teams were working on qualifying setups so he may be in the top three rows to start the race but even that's iffy because he's one of the first cars out to qualify. AGR has good drivers but their mechs just can't make their cars fast. For the race it's hard to see these guys being anything but midpack. Thoughts???

marcus · 20 May 2006, 07:11 (Ref:1614683)

possibly true but you can never count them out.

Dario and Tony will be very hard chargers come race day , whether they will be charging for 1st place or 5th place we just dont know.

Im certainly not counting them out though

Bluewolf · 20 May 2006, 11:22 (Ref:1614792)

Well Marcus I hope you're right because I'm Herta fan -- {Although it will be hard not to root for Michael Andretti with all the laps he's led at indy} But I look at these race setup times and it's just unbelievable -- it's astonishing that not even one out of five AGR drivers has ended the day in the top ten in the last session. Sheeesh!

BootsOntheSide · 20 May 2006, 12:01 (Ref:1614808)

It always looked clear that most of AGR's advantage came from the Honda engines, and now that everybody has then the strength of the Ganassi and Penske teams are shining through - better engineers and arguably better drivers. Still, you can never count Tony out, even when he's not near the front of the grid.

DefntlyDiffrnt · 20 May 2006, 18:34 (Ref:1615111)

Being a huge Marlboro Team Penske fan myself the past couple of years have sucked. They managed to still stay somewhat competitive, even winning a couple of races along the way but strictly because of their engineering and driver talent. Most of the races they won were on short tracks which is totally in driver talent and engineering.

I had a feeling that b/c they've done all the trimming they could do the last couple of years to make the Toyotas run faster that when the HP was evened out - they would definitely be up front b/c they already know how to trim the cars back to get a lot of power out of them. I'm glad I was right.

I'm a happy camper seeing Helio and Sam up front and dominating the way everyone was predicting when Sam made the move from Panther to Penske.

<does happy dance>

luke · 20 May 2006, 21:21 (Ref:1615210)

They have but...I think part of the main bit was, they were all in a chance of winning each weekend, maybe not Herta but they centered around Wheldon in terms of success, now he's gone and it's Marco Andretti who's a rook.
Franchitti and Kanaan are very good drivers, the top runners in the series, just think sometimes why they are not consistently there...

drdisque · 21 May 2006, 05:05 (Ref:1615338)

Penske also designed new mirrors and a new way to adjust the rear wing, which I think accounts for a lot of the gap between them and Ganassi.

Hornish was amazing though, putting that much time on his teammate in an almost identical car.

luke · 21 May 2006, 11:05 (Ref:1615496)

Well Sam knows he has to win it...

JohnSSC · 23 May 2006, 03:48 (Ref:1616774)

I wouldn't count Michael Andretti out of it. Indy is rife with example of guys who went like the dickens all month and then raceday just didn't pan out. Michael's history here is that he never qualifies well. Yet, he has led the most laps of anyone who has never won here. I think his focus is on the race setup, not pole.

I agree though that from my seat at least, Penske is the team to beat.

Fogelhund · 23 May 2006, 16:58 (Ref:1617254)

http://www.presstelegram.com/sports/ci_3850317

Quote:

At the same time, Michael Andretti has told people he's seriously considering a return to Champ Car in 2007 if there is no merger.

Regarding what Michael has said... well, we don't know what he said exactly do we? So, we've got third hand quotes, and each individuals interpretation of such.

He could easily have said, "If there is no merger, I'll be running in another (or elsewhere) series next year." So, writer concluded Champcars, but that isn't necessarily so. Given their application to be one of the Honda/Acura factory ALMS teams, it could just as easily be that.

Then we wonder what that means exactly. Is Andretti looking for $, or to exert influence from such a statement over TG, or do we take this face value?

Team Owner · 26 May 2006, 08:48 (Ref:1619297)

penske and Ganassi had underpowered Toyotas last year and in an effort to keep up with the Hondas they worked on aero and mechanical grip issues all year. The AGR team who was used to just outpowering everyone with their Hondas didn't do the research that it takes to stay on top. In other words their engineers got lazy and relied on the Hond horspower to bring them theu. Now this year everybody has equal power like mine and AGR is a year behind and may never catch up. The only reason AGR would win now is great driving and great pit stops by their mostly intact crews. Interesting year watching the lads from AGR running around with frowns on their faces.

JohnSSC · 26 May 2006, 09:34 (Ref:1619326)

Complacency is the Enemy in racing, isn't it?

Tim Northcutt · 26 May 2006, 14:07 (Ref:1619501)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Owner

penske and Ganassi had underpowered Toyotas last year and in an effort to keep up with the Hondas they worked on aero and mechanical grip issues all year. The AGR team who was used to just outpowering everyone with their Hondas didn't do the research that it takes to stay on top. In other words their engineers got lazy and relied on the Hond horspower to bring them theu. Now this year everybody has equal power like mine and AGR is a year behind and may never catch up. The only reason AGR would win now is great driving and great pit stops by their mostly intact crews. Interesting year watching the lads from AGR running around with frowns on their faces.

I had assumed Penske had done so, because they were at least competitive at tracks....Sam was fast at Indy on Race Day last year.

I knew that Ganassi had done a lot of aero work, because I know a guy who works for Panoz Motorsports Group.

Questions for you, Team Owner:

How much of that work that Ganassi did can be transferred over the the Dallaras that he is now racing ont he ovals? Since they run the Panoz on road courses, the work they did last year would apply.

Which chassis does your team race?

What do you see as the major differences between the two?

luke · 26 May 2006, 14:26 (Ref:1619520)

About what Michael Andretti did say but had words put in his mouth....I can't see why he'd want to move back to Champ Car next year, other then the fact that what team owner was ilaberating on...that he relied on the horsepower of the Honda last year and didn't work on the areo as much as Penske and co did because they were under powered and he had that advantage...now it's hurting as everyone is on the same engine and he didn't make those adjustments...and improvements over the time..now AGR won't have much a chance of winning maybe he can't hack they are no longer dominating so he wants to back to the CCWS as he wants to domiante who knows in his head...

Tim Northcutt · 26 May 2006, 14:29 (Ref:1619522)

Personally, I think AGR would go where the Honda money goes...

and if he can get Honda money to race in the ALMS as one of their factory teams, I would expect him to go there, instead of back to Champ Car, where he would be in a spec Panoz chassis with a spec Cosworth engine...

luke · 26 May 2006, 14:41 (Ref:1619534)

I can't understand why some of these past open wheel legends would want to change their teams to the ALMS..sure Penske has a team there and Ganassi in Grand-Am, but why move full time there, and also Rahal and Andretti? Shouldn't their love be with the Indy 500 and where they were successfull? I guess it shows they go where the money goes and like to be traiters ie, from CART to the IRL..now it could be IRL to ALMS....

Tim Northcutt · 26 May 2006, 14:48 (Ref:1619538)

It could be Champ Car and IRL to the ALMS...

Think about Newman-Haas...the Lola distributor here in North America

Champ Car goes to a Panoz chassis next year...

Why wouldn't he campaign a brand he distributes here as a North American Factory-backed evffort over in ALMS when his customers go away in Champ Car in 2007???

Fogelhund · 26 May 2006, 15:11 (Ref:1619551)

Quote:

Originally Posted by luke

I can't understand why some of these past open wheel legends would want to change their teams to the ALMS..sure Penske has a team there and Ganassi in Grand-Am, but why move full time there, and also Rahal and Andretti? Shouldn't their love be with the Indy 500 and where they were successfull? I guess it shows they go where the money goes and like to be traiters ie, from CART to the IRL..now it could be IRL to ALMS....

Traitors? Unlike some fans, these people are not necessarily in love with one series versus another. They are business people, who love to compete and race.

Both Rahal and Andretti had success in Sportscars, and were so before they were at Indy. Both Rahal and Andretti have run in series without the Indy 500 (F1, Sportscars, Champcars). They moved to the IRL for the Honda money, and now that source of revenues are drying up. There is no guarantee that they'll leave, but certainly no guarantee they'll stay either.

To be honest, I see the IRL three years down the road, looking much like it did pre 2003, with larger grids, and smaller teams... which isn't necessarily a bad thing, and probably more sustainable.

luke · 26 May 2006, 15:16 (Ref:1619555)

Still pointless imo.

Fogelhund · 26 May 2006, 15:32 (Ref:1619563)

Quote:

Originally Posted by luke

Still pointless imo.

Pointless? Why do you say that?

Tim Northcutt · 26 May 2006, 18:58 (Ref:1619703)

I would have to disagree with you, Luke...

I was told at Mid-Ohio last year by a source that would know that Rahal would love to get back into sportscar racing if he could...his son, Graham, wants to focus his talents that direction as well...

It is a matter of the right deal and the money...

Honda $$$ to be one of their factory teams in the ALMS would certainly fit that criteria sicne they have worked with them for three years now.

luke · 26 May 2006, 19:36 (Ref:1619744)

Where would that leave Danica? What she wanted to do when she was in Atlantics was to be in Champ Car but also do the Indy 500.

luke · 26 May 2006, 20:56 (Ref:1619791)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Pointless? Why do you say that?

Just my personal opinion.

Fogelhund · 26 May 2006, 20:56 (Ref:1619792)

It would seem as though young Graham has his sights on larger goals these days.

http://www.columbusdispatch.com/auto...524-G1-02.html

Quote:

"He wants to race in Europe next year, and his goal now is Formula One, and I say go for it," Bobby Rahal said.

As far as Danica, well she is a very marketable young lady. She'll end up where she chooses to go. That could be IRL, Champcars, or Sportscars.

luke · 26 May 2006, 21:01 (Ref:1619796)

Or even F1. And thanks for the info on Graham...

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