ALMS/Grand Am Fusion 2014

[Dead-Eye]

Glad I'm going to Sebring next year, might be the last time it's worth watching.

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

Glad I'm going to Sebring next year, might be the last time it's worth watching.

Last year was the last year worth watching. You're a year late. Sebring more than likely not going to be on 2013 WEC calendar.

[Maelochs]

What this means is serious sports cars will disappear from North America.

Remember the HPD ARX-02a with its revolutionary wide front tires? An idea so good every major manufacturer copied it? That kind of thinking is ILLEGAL in Grand-Am.

All chassis must be built to precise specs, all bodywork must be wind-tunnel tested Not go give an advantage. Engines don’t just have displacement limits; they have prescribed horsepower and torque curves. Figure some ingenious way to get a little more low-end torque and you will get fined.

The Pursuit of Being No Better Than the Rest, in the Car of Yesterday---This Is Grand Am Racing.

Brought to you by NASCAR: the people who discovered fuel injection—in 2012.

[Richard C]

Its hard to know what to think. I am very conflicted. I have been a strong fan of ALMS and like the fact that it brings the best (on occasion) to North America from a prototype perspective. But I also realize that now is not the time for competing series. So I like the idea of unification. I am sure the manufactures who support North American GT racing will appreciate the unification. So I think things will work themselves out on the GT side.

I am really scared however on the prototype side. I hope there remains a home for top level ACO/FIA (LeMans/WEC) prototypes in North America. I am not a fan of the DP style dumbing down of prototype racing. Maybe with the timing (2014 for merger and new prototype regulations for 2014) this might work out somehow.

I don't get to attend many professional races in person, so I am happy I was able to attend Petit Lemans a few years ago and will be at the VIR ALMS race later this month. My fear is that it may be many years before we see those types of cars in North America again.

Richard

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

Last year was the last year worth watching. You're a year late. Sebring more than likely not going to be on 2013 WEC calendar.

Precisely my biggest immediate fear. If the ALMS is dying and the P classes aren't somehow included in the Grand-Am model going forward, are we going to get even two prototypes on the grid?

Could the 2013 ALMS season be a GT-only year?

GT(E)
GT-Am
GT3
GTC

(Now I'm getting these threads mixed up!)

Chris

[picchiofan]

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

It won't be. Grand-Am's singular purpose was to muddy the racing market outside of NASCAR, to effectively build a monopoly. And they have done that by (effectively) killing the ALMS and all their machinations in the CART/IRL wars.

The ALMS didn't need Grand AM's help, they've been effectively trying to kill the series for years. Looks like they succeeded.

[CTD]

And spark even more speculation in this thread.
With no Audi Sportscar racing in the US other than the R8 program. Could the Audi GA Prototype actually become real!?

Or turned in a more positive way, could Audi, Toyota and Porsche push the NASCAR family to include LMP's for a "small" sponsorship deal!?

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

Last year was the last year worth watching. You're a year late. Sebring more than likely not going to be on 2013 WEC calendar.

They should definetly include it not , in the face of this abortion !!!

[DistortedSmile]

fvck everything.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

SPEED.com/GARRA Fans.com:



Ten Tenths/ALMSFans.com:

[Articus]

I wouldn't do any damning yet. We have yet to see which teams will even make the Jump to Grand-Scam. Dyson will probably go do Grand-Am as they have had a foot in that door for a long time. Muscle Milk could potentially go do WEC for Honda. Level 5 will probably go WEC. Conquest will provably do WEC too. I would be happy to see all the GT teams leave America and go do WEC. My only concern as always has been how do you justify firing all the personel who cannot be flying out of the country to these rounds let alone paying for all those plane tickets. A $79 dollar Southwest flight or even driving a prius to each ALMS race suddenly becomes a $1300 Air France ticket.....for every single round of WEC...for every necessary team member. What I want to happen is not financialy feasible but I want it nonetheless

[Holt]

Originally Posted by picchiofan

The ALMS didn't need Grand AM's help, they've been effectively trying to kill the series for years. Looks like they succeeded.

So who killed the ELMS? Was that NASCAR too?

Either way the ALMS lost. If it was as great as many claim it to be the fields wouldnt have been shrinking consistently and we would have never got to this point. Its like all the CART/Champ car whatever fans who hated Tony George for splitting the series. OK then, but if CART was going in the right direction and was such a successful series how did it eventually die out 10 years after the split? How did the Indycar series thrive in that time eventually convincing bit team owners like Penske and Ganassi to jump ship to the smaller, newer series?

All I want from this is the restoration of the Sportscar Triple Crown. Daytona, Sebring, and Le Mans. All 3 should be WEC rounds. If not, fine. lol at whatever they call the WEC that doesnt include 2/3 legs of the triple crown. Petite Le Mans does not have the same history as Sebring or Daytona now matter how much they try and prop it up

[Articus]

I guess this just means one less championship I follow and more time devoted to living life

[Maelochs]

I hope I am wrong, but I don’t see any way the France Empire is going to follow ACO rules. The Emperors don’t give up once ounce of control in any of their series to the drivers, the teams, the manufacturers, or the tracks (well, they own almost all the tracks.)

You can expect dumbed-down DPs, I mean, normal DPs, dumbed-down GTs like they have now, and GX, which, since it will be a GA class, will be born dumb.

If we are lucky, they won’t replace DPs with American DTM cars, but I’d bet the two will share the same chassis and engine formulae.

ACO/FIA is going to try to use WEC and F1 as its marketing moneymakers in the U.S., a saturated car market where no track or town is willing to pony up huge bucks just to run a race (our billionaires think they are so exceptional, bringing a prestigious race series is pointless; unlike say, Russia or Bahrain.)

North America will get a WEC round and three F1 GPs, NASACR and Grand Am running a lot of doubleheaders, and NASCAR will buy out IndyCar when Randy Bernard leaves because no one else will want the job and the Sisters will be older and tireder and will want to believe it when NASCAR claims it will respect the tradition of Indy.

Every form of domestic North American racing will feature spec machinery except SCCA and local drag strips and ovals.

WEC will get all the cool machinery we now associate with “sports car racing.” GA will continue to emphasize identical, low-tech cars which only change every five years, where manufacturer involvement is limited to sponsorship, signage, and unique grille stickers on cars from each “manufacturer (like the “Corvette DP,” which is either a riley, Coyote, or Dallara with a 5-kiter GM power plant—and not the slightest part of a Corvette except the name.)

NASCAR thrives on control, not innovation. NASCAR thrives on consistent product, and is totally willing to manufacturer “racing action” to keep people coming back (Green-white-yellow is coming to sports-car racing; the “Lucky Dog” was already tried once; it will be back.)

There will be No LMP-anythings. Learn to love Daytona Prototypes.

As for GT—right now Grand Am GT is 100 percent Balance of Performance. How else can a Mazda RX-8, a Corvette, and a Camaro all have an equal chance at winning (oh, well, because the two of the three are purpose-built tube-framed replicas, I guess.)

Grand Am will willingly accept any GT3 which is modified to GA specs—that is, slowed down and dumbed-down so as not to embarrass the DPs. Instead of factories having to build GTE versions to race in North America, they will sell GT3 kit cars and GA will sell twice-as-heavy roll cages and engine-underpowering kits to help privateers comply with the “slower is better” GA philosophy.

Factories which want to compete in the big league (WEC) will still have to build GTE machinery; this ensures that only factories big enough to pay huge entry fees will bother getting involved.

If you finds the idea of Daytona Prototypes at the Rolex offensive, think how much you are going to love seeing them at Sebring—lapping almost as fast as the Flying Lizards used to back in the Good Old Days when ALMS was around.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by CTD

Current LMP's will be scrapped in 2014, so you can strike #1. And likely #2 also.

With all due respect, you're looking at this wrong. It doesn't matter what the ACO/FIA do anymore. Le Mans Prototype won't mean anything in NA. However, I think there will be connection among the top prototype classes. Think GTP vs. Group C.

And the combination of the current LMPC and DP classes is the only thing from the list I am confident will happen.

[gsmith2424]

I think we fans need to get together and file a monopoly lawsuit against NASCAR/France Family to stop this. If you look at what the France Family controls/owns it is very scary that they can control so much for so long without anyone speaking up about it. If this goes through sportscar racing in the US will be killed.

[Articus]

Also lets not forget the glaring GT issue here. The current ACO GTE cars are as quick if not faster than the Daytona prototypes....And how do you explain why the ESM Ferrari GT2 is 10 seconds quicker than the AIM Autosport FXDD Ferrari..

[picchiofan]

Originally Posted by Holt

So who killed the ELMS? Was that NASCAR too?

Either way the ALMS lost. If it was as great as many claim it to be the fields wouldnt have been shrinking consistently and we would have never got to this point. Its like all the CART/Champ car whatever fans who hated Tony George for splitting the series. OK then, but if CART was going in the right direction and was such a successful series how did it eventually die out 10 years after the split? How did the Indycar series thrive in that time eventually convincing bit team owners like Penske and Ganassi to jump ship to the smaller, newer series?

All I want from this is the restoration of the Sportscar Triple Crown. Daytona, Sebring, and Le Mans. All 3 should be WEC rounds. If not, fine. lol at whatever they call the WEC that doesnt include 2/3 legs of the triple crown. Petite Le Mans does not have the same history as Sebring or Daytona now matter how much they try and prop it up

You sorta missed my point. This is all on the ALMS. Grand Am didn't have to do anything to "kill" that series, they did it all on their own.

[picchiofan]

Originally Posted by Articus

And how do you explain why the ESM Ferrari GT2 is 10 seconds quicker than the AIM Autosport FXDD Ferrari..

One is built to GT2 specs, the other is built to GT3 specs and then adjusted based to the ruleset and performance standards mandated by the sanctioning body.

That didn't seem too hard.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by Holt

So who killed the ELMS? Was that NASCAR too?

Either way the ALMS lost. If it was as great as many claim it to be the fields wouldnt have been shrinking consistently and we would have never got to this point. Its like all the CART/Champ car whatever fans who hated Tony George for splitting the series. OK then, but if CART was going in the right direction and was such a successful series how did it eventually die out 10 years after the split? How did the Indycar series thrive in that time eventually convincing bit team owners like Penske and Ganassi to jump ship to the smaller, newer series?

All I want from this is the restoration of the Sportscar Triple Crown. Daytona, Sebring, and Le Mans. All 3 should be WEC rounds. If not, fine. lol at whatever they call the WEC that doesnt include 2/3 legs of the triple crown. Petite Le Mans does not have the same history as Sebring or Daytona now matter how much they try and prop it up

ALMS is arguably more valuable than GA. Panoz has been trying to sell the series for years. Take a ****ty economy, poor media package, and the fact that the WEC has devalued his "investment", who else would buy it? It was inevitable.

[picchiofan]

Originally Posted by gsmith2424

I think we fans need to get together and file a monopoly lawsuit against NASCAR/France Family to stop this. If you look at what the France Family controls/owns it is very scary that they can control so much for so long without anyone speaking up about it. If this goes through sportscar racing in the US will be killed.

And based on what awesome legal forum minds would you base this lawsuit?

This isn't a hostile takeover. Panoz/Atherton have been trying to sell the series for 3 years now, they finally found a buyer.

[Articus]

Originally Posted by picchiofan

One is built to GT2 specs, the other is built to GT3 specs and then adjusted based to the ruleset and performance standards mandated by the sanctioning body.

That didn't seem too hard.

Yes I know thats the answer. The problem is it looks a bit silly to have two Corvette's, two Ferrari's, two M3's, two Porsches running around in the same race all withthe same names. This is why the makes did not build cars for both GT1 and GT1. Why would Porsche build both GT1 and GT2, then Ferrari both classes let alone a 458 GT1 and 458 GT2. Then Aston both classes. It presents the same issue with GTE and GRand-GT

[picchiofan]

Originally Posted by Articus

Yes I know thats the answer. The problem is it looks a bit silly to have two Corvette's, two Ferrari's, two M3's, two Porsches running around in the same race all withthe same names. This is why the makes did not build cars for both GT1 and GT1. Why would Porsche build both GT1 and GT2, then Ferrari both classes let alone a 458 GT1 and 458 GT2. Then Aston both classes. It presents the same issue with GTE and GRand-GT

So, why does Porsche build a GTE spec car and a GTC spec one?

You would have had a *real* hard time following sports cars in the 90's.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Bon Débarras ACO!

[DistortedSmile]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

If you finds the idea of Daytona Prototypes at the Rolex offensive, think how much you are going to love seeing them at Sebring—lapping almost as fast as the Flying Lizards used to back in the Good Old Days when ALMS was around.

I think I'm going to go jump off a bridge now.