DTM 2022

[IdealLine]

Between NLS/N24, DMV GTC + Dunlop 60, Spezial Tourenwagen Trophy, ADAC GT and DTM Germany has way too many championships for GT3's though. It's not like racing a GT3 is unique within the country. Maybe the all Pro format is in fact unique, but highly I doubt whether they'll be able to continue this after the loss of certain sponsors and investors.

Touring cars are a different matter though, the lower ranks are pretty much non-existent. There's an Up Cup with 10 cars, and the BMW M2 series with about 13/15 cars. Then there's ADAC TCR which has been struggling for years now. There's a huge gap to fill and if something can do so it's the DTM name

To me it seems a logical fit to bring DTM back to it roots and let it provide spectacular touring car racing (in whichever ruleset they'd pick, electrified or not). With the right choices they can be to Germany what the BTCC is to the UK

Either way I hope this unification will lead to a stronger overall racing environment in Germany regardless of the outcome

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by IdealLine

Between NLS/N24, DMV GTC + Dunlop 60, Spezial Tourenwagen Trophy, ADAC GT and DTM Germany has way too many championships for GT3's though. It's not like racing a GT3 is unique within the country. Maybe the all Pro format is in fact unique, but highly I doubt whether they'll be able to continue this after the loss of certain sponsors and investors.

Touring cars are a different matter though, the lower ranks are pretty much non-existent. There's an Up Cup with 10 cars, and the BMW M2 series with about 13/15 cars. Then there's ADAC TCR which has been struggling for years now. There's a huge gap to fill and if something can do so it's the DTM name

To me it seems a logical fit to bring DTM back to it roots and let it provide spectacular touring car racing (in whichever ruleset they'd pick, electrified or not). With the right choices they can be to Germany what the BTCC is to the UK

Either way I hope this unification will lead to a stronger overall racing environment in Germany regardless of the outcome

I agree with all you say but switch to TCR is simply not good for the DTM in my opinion.

[Bcarr6]

All current touring car options are not sufficiently high end enough for the DTM, hence the GT3 format.

Personally I’d take a continuation of all Pro GT3 racing over TCR based racing any day.

TCR Germany is fine as a support, but nothing more.

Build a new class of top spec touring cars and I’d be interested, but the only way that’ll happen now is if it’s fully electric, and that is years out

We shall see next week..

[NaBUru38]

Here's another crazy idea: how about LMDh? Porsche vs BMW? Let's call it DRM.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Here's another crazy idea: how about LMDh? Porsche vs BMW? Let's call it DRM.

With single driver 60 minutes sprint racing on the Norisring!

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Here's another crazy idea: how about LMDh? Porsche vs BMW? Let's call it DRM.

that would make too much sense

[stuart thompson]

I can’t believe people are suggesting that DTM should lower its standards as low as TCR!
Come on, we all know that DTM is about the fastest, wildest touring cars available.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

that would make too much sense

There's not enough money in German motorsports for a full grid of those these days. Things are really dire, we're Europe's biggest economy and don't even have a national single seater series anymore with ADAC F4 shutting down.

[GusGasfuss]

I believe it will be like suggested:


- DTM as header of weekend, with professional driver racing GT3 in sprint races
- GT Masters as Pro-Am-endurance series with 2 drivers each car
- GT4 as feeder series (also including DTM Trophy).
- TCR (if they still exist in Germany after 2022
- maybe some one-make-race-series (BMW M2 Cup etc.)


DTM with GT3 proved to be successful and interesting for race teams, as a lot of them trying to get into the series.
Even if they make their money elsewhere (GT Masters, IGTC). Maybe DTM is a good showcase for their abilities.


I would love to have something in Germany, like they created with BTCC. But can't see this as a main series in Germany.

[Bcarr6]

I think in terms of Support packagings the DTM and ADAC both have some great options, to land a full bill.

F4 going is a shame but I get it.

GT4 I don't doubt will be a combination of ADAC GT4 and DTM Trophy, only in the sense of combining the grids. The format will be the same as ADAC GT4 before.

TCR is struggling sure, as is TCR worldwide. Maybe you do a combination cup of TCR and BMW M2 Cup.

Dont forget the DTM Classics, be nice to see them run a handful of events in 2023 again.

The big one you missed is Porsche Carrera Cup Germany, which is probably i'd say more serious than GT4, that run a combined schedule of WEC, ADAC and DTM events last year, so its a logical support again.

Then theres the little guys, Lotus Cup,P9 etc.

If DTM and GT Masters does continue as a pair or series as suggested, the weekends will be pretty full!

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by GusGasfuss

I believe it will be like suggested:


- DTM as header of weekend, with professional driver racing GT3 in sprint races
- GT Masters as Pro-Am-endurance series with 2 drivers each car
- GT4 as feeder series (also including DTM Trophy).
- TCR (if they still exist in Germany after 2022
- maybe some one-make-race-series (BMW M2 Cup etc.)


DTM with GT3 proved to be successful and interesting for race teams, as a lot of them trying to get into the series.
Even if they make their money elsewhere (GT Masters, IGTC). Maybe DTM is a good showcase for their abilities.

Probably this.

But if GT Masters becomes a 2nd tier series does that harm the series? E.g. less interest from sponsors and pro-drivers?

If they lose single seaters and touring cars the format becomes one sided, not much diversity. Having no single seaters is shameful for a country like Germany.

Originally Posted by GusGasfuss

I would love to have something in Germany, like they created with BTCC. But can't see this as a main series in Germany.

Never understood why DTM (10 years ago or so) didn't adopt technical rules of V8 Supercars or a more powerfull and RWD only variant of BTCC.

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Never understood why DTM (10 years ago or so) didn't adopt technical rules of V8 Supercars or a more powerfull and RWD only variant of BTCC.

I think the same, I've always been of opinion (and boringly repeated it numerous times here - will say yet another) that DTM should've gone the 'Supercars' way. Supercars are fast, powerful and great to watch without being too silhouette-ish, fragile etc and still much more touring car-like than the DTM cars from the 21st century. IMO that would work very well and suit the DTM and would do better at keeping costs in control.
But now with DTM being taken over by ADAC I can imagine that the GT3 cars are here to stay for longer time - unless ADAC thinks outside the box and finds resources and opportunities to create a DTM-only ruleset.

[tux]

TBH Scrap them both and send everyone to SRO

[Bcarr6]

Originally Posted by tux

TBH Scrap them both and send everyone to SRO

Im not sure SRO needs any more cars. Theres always such thing as too much of a good thing

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Now, what if the ADAC GT Masters did 2-hour races?

I meant on different weekends.

The Italian GT has four sprint weekend and four endurance weekends.

How about this:

DTM (2x 1h): Nürburgring GP, Hockenheim, Norisring, Red Bull Ring, Spa-Francorchamps, Zandvoort.

ADAC GT Masters (2h): Nürburgring Nordschleife, Oschersleben, Lausitzring, Sachsenring, Zolder, Assen.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

I meant on different weekends.

The Italian GT has four sprint weekend and four endurance weekends.

How about this:

DTM (2x 1h): Nürburgring GP, Hockenheim, Norisring, Red Bull Ring, Spa-Francorchamps, Zandvoort.

ADAC GT Masters (2h): Nürburgring Nordschleife, Oschersleben, Lausitzring, Sachsenring, Zolder, Assen.

But what with GT4, Porsche Supercup and other support series?

[NaBUru38]

The supporting series can rotate between the two, just like the Italian GT support series.

[Speed-King]

https://www.motorsport-total.com/dtm...statt-22120701

Apparently the idea is to dump DTM into the 3rd tier ADAC Racing Weekend package

You can either read that as a humiliation for DTM or as an attempt to give them a well-rounded support package.

[Akrapovic]

The only thing humiliating for DTM is their constant inability to be able to function as a series.

Putting DTM into the ADAC Racing Weekend sounds like a great solution tbh. It keeps the series alive and will hopefully get it onto the ADAC Youtube where it can be watched.

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Never understood why DTM (10 years ago or so) didn't adopt technical rules of V8 Supercars or a more powerfull and RWD only variant of BTCC.

or rather V8 Superstars , as they already had cars

production based V8 sedans

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

or rather V8 Superstars , as they already had cars

production based V8 sedans

I loved that series, but truthfully it was an absolute BoP mess and reliability was really bad. It's no surprise it all imploded just a few years after it peaked.

[IdealLine]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

https://www.motorsport-total.com/dtm...statt-22120701

Apparently the idea is to dump DTM into the 3rd tier ADAC Racing Weekend package

You can either read that as a humiliation for DTM or as an attempt to give them a well-rounded support package.

I did read they'll be rebranding the GTC for next year, which had been the headline for the ADAC Racing Weekends so far. Sounds like they're turning that series into DTM to me. One note though, this definitely is an AM-focussed series, and the supports are the closest thing to club racing Germany has.

I'd still prefer DTM as TCR, as part of a good package, over the GTC turning into DTM on those weekends..

[Bcarr6]

You don't buy the DTM to squash it. If your objective was to destroy the DTM, the best approach would have been to let it run out of funds as it had done.

Buying it means you value its platform, so its in your interest to grow it.

I totally get the proposal of combining the DTM with ADAC racing weekends, ADAC now have a lot of series to manage, and it makes sense to do those over 2 sets of events vs 3.

I think realistically, ADAC can gain a lot from owning the DTM if they play it right.

GT Masters weekends with the British GT approach of Pro-Am, mix of a 2x 60 min races and single 120 min races would be a nice touch, supported by GT4 and TCR plus regional size series.

DTM weekends with single driver all PRO 2x 60 min races, supported by GTC and Porsche Carrera Cup Germany plus regionals.

Not sure how ADAC LMP3 fits in if at all.

Thats a decent balance in my books, DTM would be the bigger weekend most likely, all PRO racing and the DTM name will bring in good support always.

But who cares which is the bigger weekend in that scenario, ADAC owns both, so they win either way.

Any suggestion the DTM should be TCR or similar is just a pointless backstep thatd kill the series

[Bcarr6]

Press conference on now: ADAC announcing DTM as the top end of everything they do, DTM for PRO, Gt Masters and Proto for upcoming stars and Pro Am, TCR and GT4 for juniors, racing Weekends for AM's

Heirarchy as follows:

DTM - Top Tier

GT Masters + ADAC Prototype - Second Tier

GT4 Germany + TCR Germany - Third Tier

ADAC Racing Weekends - Fourth Tier


Porsche Carrera Cup Deutschland and BMW M2 Racing cup wil also continue

[Bcarr6]

Still some clarity needed after that press conference but essentially, DTM remains in its current form, now as the top tier of the ADAC/DTM weekends.

GT Masters keeps its current form, except for the fact LMP3 is added in.

GT4 Germany stays, absorbing DTM Trophy, no real mention of TCR Germany, that may or may not be absorbed into those races (we would then have a sprint version of the US Pilot Challenge).

Finally, the rest of the supports are BMW M2 Cup and Porsche Cup Deutschland

Calendar as follows:

05/26 – 28.05. – Oschersleben
23.06. – 25.06. – Zandvoort
07.07. – 09.07. – Norisring
04.08. – 06.08. – Nürburgring
18.08. – 20.08. – Lausitzring
08.09. – 10.09. – Sachsenring
22.09. – 24.09. – Red Bull Ring
20.10. – 22.10. – Hockenheimring

Porsche Cup present for all but Oschersleben and Norisring.

DTM Endurance (Gt Masters + Proto) present at 6-7 of the 8 DTM race weekends

BMW M2 and GT4 Germany calendars not revealed yet