LM24 Le Mans 2004 entry list - Page 3

full throttle · 11 Nov 2003, 18:07 (Ref:780111)

Mal: Okay I'm done with the subject. Of course the ACO can do whatever they desire, and they definitely have the right and the obligation to promote the new series. No argument on any of that. What would be nice is if they would show equal consideration to the series that basically kept Lemans-type sportscar racing from becoming extinct in N America. That's all.... I think the 24 is the greatest race in the world today and I think ALMS has been partly responsible for its renaissance.

The race this last weekend was a one-time blip on the screen and will cease to be an issue next year. It would have been a nice gesture by the ACO to give either Petit or Sebring, or anything over here equal pulling status from a guaranteed entry standpoint. Since scheduling made travel between the events such a problem, it seems Petit would have been the logical choice.

Karl Kling · 11 Nov 2003, 18:36 (Ref:780146)

Quote:

Originally posted by paul-collins
You're all complaining at the prospect of having 4 Audi R8s in the field?

Did you complain back in 1985 when 956/962s made up 1/4 of the field?

Interresting point! I've been wondering the same thing for some time now and was just gonna ask you that when i saw this note.

Was Le Mans really that exciting back in the eighties? I mean, everyone is talking about the glorious races in those days, and that it was a golden era of sportscar racing but still it was just Porsche vs Porsche.

I wasn't even aware of Le Mans back then but to me it seems that the races then were as predictable as they are now.

Am i wrong?
:confused:

Tim Northcutt · 11 Nov 2003, 19:18 (Ref:780178)

I can see both sides of this "automatic bid" dispute...boy, guess I really did stir a hornet's nest, didn't I???

Without rehashing everyone's well-made points on either side, I'll take an objective "by the numbers" view of the bids as they currently stand:

8 Bids -- Le Mans 2003 Race: 1st & 2nd Place in each class

8 Bids -- ALMS: 2003 Season Class winners & 2003 Petit Class winners

8 Bids -- Le Mans 1000K Race: 2 LMP900, 2 LMP675, 1 GTS & 3 GT, based
on the number of cars entered in each class for the race.
(since the LMES is just getting started)

4 Bids -- FIA-GT: 2 N-GT and 2 GT to include the Euro GT racers in
the mix....

From this perspective, the automatic bids were distributed equally (with 8 bids each) among the three major racing entities tied directly to the ACO....that seems quite fair from that perspective to me...for whatever that is worth....

The four others were extended to the non-ACO racing entity of sportscars in Europe that will remain in existence in 2004, probably as much due to the fact that the ACO needed Ratel to buy into this new direction and it was the best way to get him to do it....

*******************************************************
However:

I do see your points and your issues that ALMS competitors might in fact bear towards how it was done, or why it was done, full-throttle....but I don't think your points about Mr. Panoz not having the influence and the attention of the ACO are the case....they have a good partnership going and I see it continuing for a long time to come...

Personally, I think that the lion's share of teams selected for the Le Mans "opportunity" (and I'll get to what I mean by this in a few sentences) should be chosen on a system of points earned in their respective series, with double points given for Petit and Sebring, and Spa and Monza (1st & last LMES races) with some room left for the ACO to "invite" new but significant teams or factory efforts (Durango became a new builder by acquiring their builder's license), other noted competitors (who were fast, but had bad racing luck and didn't get high finishes maybe--like the 16 Dyson) or new chassis that did not compete in any series the year before, but would be worthy of an invite based on the people behind it and their racing pedigree (Lister readily comes to mind on this one).

ALL of these would get the "opportunity" to try to "qualify" -- i.e., be among the 15 fastest in your class -- on what are now called "Test Days".... but should be "Qualifying Days"

Thus you get the best 15 in the world in each class racing at the most important sportscar race on the planet each June -- no politics...no "let's put a Norma in the field (for diversity of makes, with nothing to do concerning the country where it was built, because I believe the ACO has too much integrity for that) while the Taurus Lola sits at home" nonsense....no excuses from anyone...

Prove you're one of the 15 fastest on the track head-to-head with everyone from all series in your classification during the "Qualifying Days" in May to "earn" a spot in the 24 Hours of le Mans....

That would be the "Best" way to do it....it'll never happen, but it would be the "best" way to do it...the fields at LM would be the strongest possible fields in each class...and they would be decided objectively...because a stopwatch doesn't lie....

full throttle · 11 Nov 2003, 19:42 (Ref:780202)

I'll take that format. Just give everyone a 'racing chance'!! Can't ask for more...

rdjones · 11 Nov 2003, 19:43 (Ref:780204)

I have just read over on DSC that if a team gains entry from one class, they can use it another one, Lister for example.

**FIRE** · 11 Nov 2003, 19:44 (Ref:780206)

Quote:

I wonder about Joest. They had an automatic entry for 2003 correct? Yet they did not compete. I havn't heard any news about their program for 2004. Please enlighten me if I missed it.

There are rumours they will run some (factory) Audi's in DTM next season.

Quote:

One other point, if you are RfH or Pesarolo, and you win a race and an Audi isn't there, then you have not beaten the best. So Fab, I'd vote to allow the Audis in.

If you win Le Mans youre the best. In 2014 nobody will talk anymore that Audi wasn't there.

Quote:

- two Domes

Fab, do you mean 2 RfH cars?
I think RfH #1 is for almost 100% shure, don't know about the 2nd RfH car. BTW there are rumours RfH will do not LMES.
What about the Kondo? I read in another topic maybe they will concentrate on JGTC.

rdjones · 11 Nov 2003, 19:53 (Ref:780218)

I have just been looking at the scrap for places for entries in GT, by reckoning there are 10 teams who have automatic entries and there are some very big names that don't,Racers Group for. Looking at things in that class there will be no room for the TVR's, Spyker's and Morgan's of this world.

jhansen · 11 Nov 2003, 20:03 (Ref:780227)

You are right in one sense Fire, people don't remember second, or who wasn't there. But your achievements are always measured against your competition. That's why I like what Tim has proposed. Any method that brings the strongest field to Le Mans would only benefit the race in the long run.

Tim Northcutt · 11 Nov 2003, 21:04 (Ref:780267)

On the bids and whether or not they could be transferred...

You would almost have to be able to transfer them to some degree, because otherwise, you would be looking at a whole lot of LMP1 bids being locked in with the prototypes who raced and earned spots this year, including "grandfathered" LMP 675s that will be racing in some cases in the LMP1 Class...

But that could still be the case with Intersport having earned two bids as a 675, Lister's probable transfer (due to the homologation issue I presume) to their LMP Storm, etc....

It could get extremely confusing, and more important, could severely some "Invite" opportunities for some otherwise deserving LMP1 teams or cars because that category may be very full with the "Automatic Bid" people....

It'll be interesting to see how that one shakes out...

Fab · 12 Nov 2003, 06:01 (Ref:780667)

Quote:

Originally posted by FIRE
Fab, do you mean 2 RfH cars?
I think RfH #1 is for almost 100% shure, don't know about the 2nd RfH car. BTW there are rumours RfH will do not LMES.

Yes, I was mentionning two RFH ; I hope they'll enter two cars, and that ACO will allow them to do so.

Quote:

Originally posted by FIRE
What about the Kondo? I read in another topic maybe they will concentrate on JGTC.

Well, I may be completely wrong about this, but I never took the Kondo entries seriously ; I like to see them here, though, but they'll have a better place in the middle of the gentlemen drivers, with a LMP2 or a GT car. Again, I prefer to say that I may be completely wrong, and it's really a personnal and a non objective point of view.

Fab · 12 Nov 2003, 06:05 (Ref:780668)

Quote:

Originally posted by Tim Northcutt
You would almost have to be able to transfer them to some degree, because otherwise, you would be looking at a whole lot of LMP1 bids being locked in with the prototypes who raced and earned spots this year, including "grandfathered" LMP 675s that will be racing in some cases in the LMP1 Class...

More generaly, do we think that a good team deserved an entry in the last years, that ACO didn't allow ?

I can see Taurus in 2003, that's all ; Morgan wasn't there, but didn't want to...

Who else ?

Even if the grid is not what we would like, it's more or less the best ACO could have each year, there's not so much volonteers...

The Badger · 12 Nov 2003, 08:12 (Ref:780733)

I wonder about Joest. They had an automatic entry for 2003 correct? Yet they did not compete. I havn't heard any news about their program for 2004. Please enlighten me if I missed it.

They did compete and won it too , or at least Joest himself did . I feel that Audi didnt want him to compete with an Audi cuz he would probably have cleaned their plate for them . Still , he did have old famous number 7 !!!

paul-collins · 12 Nov 2003, 14:13 (Ref:781058)

Last year there were two MG-Lolas (Chamberlain and RML) that were denied entries. Whether they were more deserving than others is debateable, since they didn't race anywhere else...

kdr · 12 Nov 2003, 15:08 (Ref:781087)

Quote:

Originally posted by Fab
Well, I may be completely wrong about this, but I never took the Kondo entries seriously ; I like to see them here, though, but they'll have a better place in the middle of the gentlemen drivers, with a LMP2 or a GT car. Again, I prefer to say that I may be completely wrong, and it's really a personnal and a non objective point of view.

i was at the dunlop bridge at 5am in the morning in 2002. a dead engine. the mechanics came up and were offering advice from behind a line to the driver, but no luck. they were pretty gutted...and the poor driver(i think it was that japanese pop star guy)was nearly in tears.

cybersdorf · 12 Nov 2003, 15:41 (Ref:781104)

Quote:

Originally posted by paul-collins
Did you complain back in 1985 when 956/962s made up 1/4 of the field?

YES - boring as hell, no GTs, no real prototypes, Porsches everywhere...

Fab · 12 Nov 2003, 15:41 (Ref:781105)

Quote:

Originally posted by kdr
i was at the dunlop bridge at 5am in the morning in 2002. a dead engine. the mechanics came up and were offering advice from behind a line to the driver, but no luck. they were pretty gutted...and the poor driver(i think it was that japanese pop star guy)was nearly in tears.

On this basis, I think I can change my mind and say that I was wrong about a potential weak commitment of Kondo Racing... I hope they'll be there in 2004 with a good car/engine to be in the pace !

Tim Northcutt · 12 Nov 2003, 15:57 (Ref:781118)

Question:

If RfH is NOT going to run LMES.....

Exactly where will they run?????

I surely don't see them coming over to the ALMS....

I sure hope they are not planning to do the Le Mans only thing...

That is BAD for sportscar racing...and for their effort..

Fab · 12 Nov 2003, 16:00 (Ref:781124)

Did they say that they won't enter the LMES ? :confused:

kdr · 12 Nov 2003, 16:45 (Ref:781178)

Quote:

Originally posted by Fab
On this basis, I think I can change my mind and say that I was wrong about a potential weak commitment of Kondo Racing... I hope they'll be there in 2004 with a good car/engine to be in the pace !

it was quite something to see fab...a slice of what i imagine le mans was like 40 years ago. the marshalls put white tape on the ground and when a small team of kondo mechanics turned up they had to stand behind it. they were telling the driver what to do...but he had to lift the engine cover himself(although i seem to remember a couple of gendarme gave him a hand). he was trying to start it to no avail...and when the top guy behind the rope gave it the thumbs down the driver got out and just stood there numb for a few minutes. i took some shots but they were on film and it was still a little too dark to do much with.

**FIRE** · 12 Nov 2003, 17:20 (Ref:781212)

Quote:

Question:

If RfH is NOT going to run LMES.....

Exactly where will they run?????

I surely don't see them coming over to the ALMS....

I sure hope they are not planning to do the Le Mans only thing...

That is BAD for sportscar racing...and for their effort..

There are rumours that John Bosch will do FIA GT with 1 or 2 550's. If he will do FIA GT I think RfH will run the cars. He is very dissapointed in the way FIASCC was organized, so maybe he's tired of prototype racing. BUT he said also he regretted he didn't race at Le Mans 24h earlier in his career. So he's positive about Le Mans.

I got the feeling Lammers was not really interested in LMES when it was launched a while ago. Maybe Vandijk knows something more because he visited their raceshop.

Why didn't race the 2nd RfH last weekend?

I hope RfH will do LMES & Le Mans 24h with 2 cars, they deserve it because they are really sportscar supporters.

JAG · 12 Nov 2003, 19:01 (Ref:781303)

In Autosport weeks back Lammers said they WOULD compete in the LMES next year. Make of that what you will!

Can't see the point of raing in the LM 1000K if he's not interested and has budget problems.

Tim Northcutt · 12 Nov 2003, 19:35 (Ref:781331)

I would think that RfH WOULD race in LMES, too....

That's why I was so surprised by the earlier post in this forum that they may not....I was just responding to that...

Hell...if they raced at all of the FIA-SCC venues this past year, why wouldn't they run in a new and hopefully better series???

Fab · 13 Nov 2003, 06:07 (Ref:781677)

Quote:

Originally posted by kdr
it was quite something to see fab...a slice of what i imagine le mans was like 40 years ago. the marshalls put white tape on the ground and when a small team of kondo mechanics turned up they had to stand behind it. they were telling the driver what to do...but he had to lift the engine cover himself(although i seem to remember a couple of gendarme gave him a hand). he was trying to start it to no avail...and when the top guy behind the rope gave it the thumbs down the driver got out and just stood there numb for a few minutes. i took some shots but they were on film and it was still a little too dark to do much with.

This is a story allright ! Why don't we read that sort of thing in the press...

I'm convinced ! Roll on Kondo racing !

Fab · 13 Nov 2003, 06:10 (Ref:781679)

For RFH and Pescarolo, they entered only one car each because of...

guess what ? €€€...

I can't imagine LMES without RFH...

Give us back the Dallaras !!!

Fab · 13 Nov 2003, 07:44 (Ref:781721)

Some news coming from Auto-Hebdo (french paper) :
- Belmondo Racing should enter two Maranellos at LM 2004 and in LMES
- Dams could enter a Panoz GTP at LM 2004
- Gommendy could join the Audi Goh Team in LMES
- Emmanuel Collard and Olivier Beretta could join the General Motors Team

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