Nickle and a Dime GP in England

[Gerben24]

Next race is at Donington.

Roberts Jr has taken an early vacation, Kurtis is taking his ride. I can't blame Kenny to be honest. Honda have decided that they will not let Jonathan Rea ride the KR bike. This means only one KR bike in England. Story here:
http://www.crash.net/news_view~cid~6~id~149854.htm

The other rumour is Anthony West will ride for Kawasaki to replace Olivier Jacque. As it's usually raining in England (and Assen the next round) and the Kwakkers are fitted with the superior Bridgestone tyres, can West win again on British soil? Story here:
http://moto.gpupdate.net/en/news/200..._at_donington/

Chunder are you going? Maybe you can do something about this Aussie invasion, nick their bikes or something...

[chunder]

cant be bothered, i have noting against them, just get very boired with them being so good, and then teh resultant hanging on of every australian there is saying how great they are.
There is nothing like a bad winner!

And i dont include the riders in that, who are all top blokes

Brits will never win anything coz we cant do what Ausses do and come over to a better champoionship to improve and win, their series is rubbish so the two way thing cant really work

[flying finn]

Friday 22.06
Free Practice #1 > 10.00 - 11.00
Free Practice #2 > 13.50 - 14.50

Saturday 23.06
Free Practice #3 > 10.00 - 11.00
Qualifying > 13.50 - 14.50

Sunday 24.06
Race > 13.00

MotoGP News > www.motogp.com/en/motogp/index.htm

Championship Standings
1. STONER Casey AUS > 140
2. ROSSI Valentino ITA > 126
3. PEDROSA Dani SPA > 98
4. MELANDRI Marco ITA > 75
5. VERMEULEN Chris AUS > 72
6. HOPKINS John USA > 72
7. CAPIROSSI Loris ITA > 57
8. BARROS Alex BRA > 51
9. ELIAS Toni SPA > 45
10. EDWARDS Colin USA > 45
11. HAYDEN Nicky USA > 41
12. HOFMANN Alex GER > 38
13. DE PUNIET Randy FRA > 30
14. CHECA Carlos SPA > 20
15. NAKANO Shinya JPN > 19
16. TAMADA Makoto JPN > 16
17. GUINTOLI Sylvain FRA > 16
18. NIETO Fonsi SPA > 5
19. JACQUE Olivier FRA > 4
20. ROBERTS JR Kenny USA 4

[L34]

Originally Posted by chunder

cant be bothered, i have noting against them, just get very boired with them being so good, and then teh resultant hanging on of every australian there is saying how great they are.
There is nothing like a bad winner!

And i dont include the riders in that, who are all top blokes

Brits will never win anything coz we cant do what Ausses do and come over to a better champoionship to improve and win, their series is rubbish so the two way thing cant really work

Mate your right about coming to the UK and running in a much better championship. Most of the modern day riders from Australia have come through the UK and onwards to bigger and better things.

What are the sponser $$$$$ like in the UK for it's riders, compared to the rest of Europe? Is it like Australian and there is sweet FA?

You guys have some real talent look at young Bradley Smith doing well in the 125's and I think James Toseland will do really well in GP, provided he can get in with a decent team, even LCR might be a good starting point.

Chris Vermuelen has paved the way for the younger WSBK riders in MotoGP and James is as every bit good. Troy and Colin let it a little late and I guess they are both seen as SBK flops.

Still the Aussies are going through a kinda purple patch ATM, but it is a long way to winning anything yet, so I think it is better not to gob off to much.

I am hanging for the following GP rounds as I think we will see both Suzuki's fighting it out with the front runners.

[flying finn]

'nickle and dime' ??? since when has the sponsor's name taken precedence over the host country when naming a grand prix ??

what do 'nickle and dime' sell anyway - books, records ???

Donington Park web site > http://www.donington-park.co.uk/motogp/

[nihil]

Originally Posted by flying finn

'nickle and dime' ??? since when has the sponsor's name taken precedence over the host country when naming a grand prix ??

Beat me to it... I have no idea who N&D might be... but it seems a little inappropriate given that its slang for small scale, or of "little importance".

[gomick]

Originally Posted by chunder

Brits will never win anything coz we cant do what Ausses do and come over to a better champoionship to improve and win, their series is rubbish so the two way thing cant really work

do you think gregorio lavilla would dominate the australian superbike championship

not saying that the bsb is no good, far from it - just the way it is! aussie riders have to go to europe/uk to race on the world stage... they do it pretty well too

[chunder]

Dont get he Lavilaa thing, he was in line for the factory ride alongside your beloved Bayliss so I think yes he would dominate the Aussie cham[ionship really

Its the deal that you lot come over here because your championshgip is rubbish and you cant get noticed there, not since the days of Beattie, Gobert and Mladin anyway.

Youngy, Richards, Nowland etc have all come over and based themselves here and mae great lives for themselves without winning championships regularly and being winners.

Its certainly true that there is currently in the UK a certain level of antipathy towards Aussies, particularly doing teh R6 Cup as its kind of a British thing, but Rob Mac to his credit has shunned that line and wants only the best guys on the bikes.

For me its just frustrating that our lads either in the past havent had the chances (true and not in equal degree) or arent good enough.

We led the world a long time ago with Sheene, Hailwood, Surtees, Read etc, but as with everything else we just fall back.

[Peno]

According to this West has announced that he has the Jacque's Kawasaki for this weekend & possibly the rest of the season.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=274387

[ozrevhead]

Still the Aussies are going through a kinda purple patch ATM, but it is a long way to winning anything yet, so I think it is better not to gob off to much.

I take a different approach L34

Ive seen enough sport to realise that the good results/times dont last forever in sport so when we having our drivers/teams winning we should enjoy that whilst it last!!!!

Im not going to apologies to chunder or anyone else for letting them know how good our drivers are because I believe they are as good as anyone on the grid and I believe in their abilities as riders

As for comparing why Aussies have done well is I think attributed to our mental toughness and attitud as well as our talent. Europeans dont have to fly half way around the world to race if they wanna make a game of it without sweet FA sponsorship money!!

Dont want to say they have it easy cause this sport is one of the hardest to succeed in but what they do have over non Europeans sure helps alot!

[HDTVKSS]

ok Chunder let me get this staight in my head, assuming you are jsut not being fecetious.

what your saying is that under funded Aussies from a smaller population base have a better chance at making in the UK riding than englands home grown finest - why?

If anything your boys should have the upper hand with home sourced sponsorship and the fact that they can drive out their front doors to the track without traveling half way round the world just go get a start.

I dont see how the state of the aussie championship has anything to do with riders success overseas? If anything its a point of praise for the aussie riders to come from such a backwater and still perform as well as they do.

The distance issue probably works in an Aussie riders favor in a way however, in that only the best go overseas and are therefore more easily noticed, instead of having to fight their way though all the other native talent.

[jhansen]

Originally Posted by ozrevhead

Im not going to apologies to chunder or anyone else for letting them know how good our drivers are because I believe they are as good as anyone on the grid and I believe in their abilities as riders

No appologies needed. They're all great riders in my opinion. Some better than others. Although I'm certainly of the mind that nationality has nothing to do with rider skill. As for favorites, I'll route for anyone that is up against Rossi. And Capirex rocks. Hayden as well. But as I said before, I just love a good race. Take World Superbike, which has no American riders at the moment. I could care less. It has the best racing this season and I haven't missed a race yet!

Edit: My bad, this is way off topic. Let's keep it to the race guys. I think we have a thread for this.

[Slippy Diff]

Originally Posted by chunder

cant be bothered, i have noting against them, just get very boired with them being so good, and then teh resultant hanging on of every australian there is saying how great they are.
There is nothing like a bad winner!

And i dont include the riders in that, who are all top blokes

Brits will never win anything coz we cant do what Ausses do and come over to a better champoionship to improve and win, their series is rubbish so the two way thing cant really work

You're are bitter aren't you. "There is nothing like a bad winner", well there's nothing like a bad whinger either! Maybe if the poms could win more than two races so far this year instead of the Spanish and Japanese and Australians (sorry scratch that, an Aussie hasn't won a round yet) taking all the glory. Get over it.

[djb]

Originally Posted by nihil

Beat me to it... I have no idea who N&D might be... but it seems a little inappropriate given that its slang for small scale, or of "little importance".

to give you an idea of how a North American's take is on this company name, to "nickle and dime" someone is to bring the cost down on everything. As a freelancer, one will talk of a client "nickle and diming" me down on all aspects of a job, slimming down the shooting fee, print costs, not wanting to pay courrier fees etc etc.

So, all that to say that when I saw this topic title, I honestly thought it was about Team Roberts having to run only one bike as they didn't have the funds.

(I also have always gotten a laugh with the "X" race, BTCC or whatever, sponsored by "AA". Over here "AA" is Alcoholic Anonymous, and while its been a while since I've seen a BTCC race, you could wonder sometimes with all the argey-bargey that it's a bunch of drunks teetering around Paddocks Hill bend sometimes...)

PS, for the Aussies, remember when the Canadian athletes marched into the opening ceremonies of the Sydney Olympics, proudly wearing their red and white "ROOTS" uniforms, especially the cute women athletes, roots on their fronts, roots on their bums, roots on their hats... Same sort of thing.

[Hazza]

Well from the 80s the Australians got given preferential treatment from everyone else. From Wayne onwards we got pretty much all our talented riders on factory bikes,

Wayne got a NSR for a Local championship -> World Championship.
Kevin Magee got a factory Yam 500 for a local championship -> Two factory WGP rides.
Doohan got taken from a factory supported Yam ride in aus -> factory WGP ride.
Beattie got snatched at an early age, won the Jap 500 title then rode every jap factory bike there was over a period over a few years.
Mladin got a factory supported ride in Aus -> WGP -> Aus -> AMA
Corser got the same deal, AUS -> AMA -> WSBK -> WGP -> WSBK
Gobert got the same AGAIN, Aus - > WSBK - > - > WGP - > Drugs -> AMA - > WSBK - > AMA
McCoy got picked up afaik, from Aussie 250 racing to world level, then went from 125s -> 500s. There was some element of luck in his career though, wasn't as much as the other guys.

So whats the deal? The deal is that Australian rideers have been given the go ahead from an early age for 90% of the time, and 100% of the time that has resulted in race wins or championships.

Chunder can complain, because guys like Smart, Mcelna, Hislop, Walker, Rutter have had to put up with ****ty gear at the back of WGP and 250cc grids and have all ended up in WSBK or BSB. And some of them I feel were once in a lifetime riders, Hislop and Fogarty especially. If you look at those guys careers there was alot of ****ing about on private bikes, where a similarly talented Australian would have been plunked on a works bike.

But what ever.

The key differences are Stoner and Bayliss.

Bayliss started racing late, raced in the Aus SS and SBK (didn't win the SBK title) then after his career stalled he got "That ride" in the 250cc race at Phillip Island, got called over to the BSB, slogged it out with the best, got called over the AMA got on pole for Daytona, crashed then got the call from the head of Ducati Corse. And the rest is history. So his MotoGP/WGP wasn' the best it could be, but I bet he doesn't have any regrets at all cos he went the hard way through it all which is why he's still racing and will keep racing while he's winning, because he has earned every single win.

And same for stoner, he went to the Brit 125cc championship, but some how he got the sponsership and the LCR ride and was generating the same waves as Smitty.

So what am I saying?

Yes, up untill McCoy Australians were being plopped into plum rides over everyone else. Only thing is we deserved 90% of those rides. But we'll never know how the equivelent Brits would have gone.

The fact is there are some infastructure issues with British racing which keeps it back. Not so in spain/italy. Australia we still have the same issues, but we're still blessed in some cases.

[bestfit]

Also in the 80's the Australian Suberbike Championship was one of the major championships in the world with factory backed teams for Honda, Yamaha and Kawasaki. So the factories were looking to Australia for riders.

Wayne got a NSR for a Local championship -> World Championship.

Gardner was actually different to the others. He made his name racing in Britain and was actually signed to Honda for the GP's due to his success over there. He brought the NSR to Australia after he had been signed to the factory, to get some miles on the bike before the World Championship began.

[Gerben24]

Originally Posted by jhansen

Take World Superbike, which has no American riders at the moment. I could care less.

Hey, Holland hasn't had a good rider (or driver in 4-wheel racing) that could go for a world championship since I was 10 (Hans Spaan in that epic 125cc race at Philip Island, hitting Gresini on the helmet on the main straight, that was our last chance). I SHOULD BE THE ONE COMPLAINING HERE!

On topic: Anybody going to Donington this weekend???

[Hazza]

Thats right, Wayne plugged on a Morawaki...

[chunder]

Gardner was actually the trend setter for the Aussie invasion of teh UK

And Gerben what are you on about, there have been the VD Goorberg guys, Wilco was a race winner in the nineties, and before that you had Van Dulmen and all the quick Assen guys. We have had Sheene, thats it!!

Hazz makes a good point in that UK riders were given the " plonk him on it and if he is quick then fine" If not sack him and find someone with money.

Look at Foggy, he gets on a bike just like Bayliss did, in fact he did better. He got a top five ride against Schwantz, Rainey et al and crashed coz of a marshalls cock up, then nearly got a podium the next year on a one off ride. After that realised he had nothing to prove and wasnt prepared to ride a rubbish bike when he quite rightly was the proven article.

Hizzy was snubbed all the time but then he was quite a difficlut guy to read.
Leon Haslam was given a bike that was jetted so rich in the Italjet he was 20 mph slower on the straights. His team mate on the other had was getting better tyres and engines.
Darren Barton got four top 10's in a row and was so quick the other rider in the Yamaha team was sacked, gets a ride the next year on an allegedly factory Aprilia alongside Tokudome, only to find he was the crash test dummy and left after a few races.
Walker was told to ride a bike he couldnt even fot on and wasnt allowed to adjust.
Jamie Robinson was given the Suzuki ride with Numata and couldnt even fit on the bike, they just told him "sorry mate Numata fits on it and he is the factory rider, like it or lump it!
Vincent was consistnetly quicker than loads of other Honda riders in 250 for two years, and who gets the ride, Perugini who was a shocker all the time and never got a podium.
McWillliams was also quicker then all the private Hondas but never got a look in, eventually winning a race on a semi works Aprilia.
Erm, Camier was treated like a novice in GP for about 3 races before he reliased how insane it was and came back to the UK.
Chaz Davies, told to ride a richly jetted bike coz the mechanics didnt want to repair the engine, then in 250 was very quick until he got lumbered with a bike that fell apart every race!

I could go on but you get the point.

Some of the above are geniune hard luck stories and some are typically Brit moaners.

Point is, sonce Sheene, Brit riders have NEVER been fashionable, forst it was the rear steering thing and now its money and perceived image.

Look at Toseland, he is doing better than Vermuelen did in his seciond year, will he even get a sniff of a full factory bike? Doubt it.

[nihil]

Originally Posted by djb

So, all that to say that when I saw this topic title, I honestly thought it was about Team Roberts having to run only one bike as they didn't have the funds.

LOL

So we're hosting "The Penny Pinching GP".

I'm so proud...

[browney]

Is the Australian Championship that bad? I know it hasn't got a lot of money in it but that's true for a lot of alternative (ie. not football,cricket or rugby) sports in Australia because we have such a small population (less companies spending money to advertise to less people).

[Gerben24]

Originally Posted by chunder

And Gerben what are you on about, there have been the VD Goorberg guys, Wilco was a race winner in the nineties, and before that you had Van Dulmen and all the quick Assen guys. We have had Sheene, thats it!!

Wow wow wow, I said riders that could go for a world championship. Wilco, although a very nice guy (he got me tickets for a BSB round once), just lacked that little bit to compete for championships. Jurgen and Patrick were good, but also to obstinate, meaning this cost them sponsorships, therefore good rides, etc etc (in Holland this is now called the Verstappen syndrome).

Hats off for remembering Van Dulmen by the way.

And I agree with the rest of your story.

[bestfit]

Originally Posted by browney

Is the Australian Championship that bad? I know it hasn't got a lot of money in it but that's true for a lot of alternative (ie. not football,cricket or rugby) sports in Australia because we have such a small population (less companies spending money to advertise to less people).

The Australian Championship is not bad by any means, but it doesn't have the status it held in the 80's. Back then the factory teams were provided with the top works bikes from Japan with Dowson/Macgee/Doohan on factory Yamahas, Johnson/Campbell on factory Honda's and Phillis/Len Willing? on factory Kawasakis. Macgee got a ride in KR's team after impressing the factory with a guest ride on a YZR in the 1986? Swann Series. Doohan signed with Honda (although Yamaha wanted him too) after absolutely braining the opposition in the Australian and Japanese rounds of the inaugural WSBK championship in 1988. While Phyliss and Campbell headed to WSBK.

Once WSBK started in 1988, the factories put their energies into the new series and the level of equipment supplied to the Australian Championship was reduced and as more interest was shown in WSBK the status of the Australian Championship lessened.

Although the status may have reduced, the level of competition is great and it continues to produce some very talented riders.

[Gerben24]

Halleluja. Jacque announced he has retired as a Motogp rider with immediate effect. Sorry Olivier, this announcement has come 7 raceweekends too late.

He will stay on with Kawasaki as a development rider. I wish him all the best.

[Jeff 8]

I always wondered why Hislop never got a good go, he was one of my favourite Brit riders, I used to like Foggy but he could mouth off at the wrong time.

I think Barry Sheene got a lot of Aussies rides, perhaps if he stayed in Britain things would be different.