Formula Renault BARC Budget

danberry · 17 Nov 2008, 20:39 (Ref:2336589)

Does anyone know the rough budget for a top drive in the BARC, also what is likely to be the budget for a lower team?

Thanks for any help.

glenquagmire · 18 Nov 2008, 09:22 (Ref:2336849)

I'd suggest phoning some teams. There's a list on renaultsport.co.uk website.

If you can run yourself, I think around half the FRUK budget is possible, perhaps £40k-£60k depending on how much testing you do etc.

johntt · 19 Nov 2008, 11:42 (Ref:2337547)

A PDF on their site quotes the Club class (1990s chassis) as being less than £10,000.

The FR2000 class (post-2000 cars) is quoted as ranging from as little as £20,000 for a privateer team, £40,000 for a profesional team.

Bob Pearson · 19 Nov 2008, 11:48 (Ref:2337553)

Quote:

Originally Posted by danberry

Does anyone know the rough budget for a top drive in the BARC, also what is likely to be the budget for a lower team?

Thanks for any help.

the basic budget for a top team is about £k60 for the year down to £k30.
Damage and testing will be on top of those figures.
There are varying ways of laying out the pricing schedules, so make sure you understand what is included in the price.
For instance, some teams include a new set of tyres, some the entries and registration, some the entry for the testday and some the insurance, another team charges an hourly rate for preparation/repair of the car. So the quoted price isn't everything, make sure you are comparing like with like.

Redracer77 · 21 Nov 2008, 15:12 (Ref:2338934)

Will the price of BARC cars drop now they have a new chassis on the way? I would guess the main UK cars would become BARCs main class?

Bob Pearson · 21 Nov 2008, 15:21 (Ref:2338937)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redracer77

Will the price of BARC cars drop now they have a new chassis on the way? I would guess the main UK cars would become BARCs main class?

I guess that is an inevitable occurance over a period of time. Rumour has it that the current BARC cars will carry on on BARC for some time yet, possibly in the WEC and NEC also, although I don't have definate details. I guess the 2007 bodywork option will crop up somewhere in the mix, maybe BARC will become a 2 class thing with 2 different types of bodywork, but it makes so little difference that it would be almost pointless.

I think I will try to engage the right people in conversation and try to get some concrete information.

THR · 28 Nov 2008, 21:19 (Ref:2343546)

or you could try Brscc (club) F3 for a similar amount of money

andy97 · 30 Nov 2008, 08:36 (Ref:2344138)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redracer77

Will the price of BARC cars drop now they have a new chassis on the way? I would guess the main UK cars would become BARCs main class?

They'll also be eligible for Monoposto in 2009 - to BARC specifications (excluding ride height and tyres).

(Formula 3 specification cars with engines using a 24mm inlet restrictor will also be allowed in Mono from 2009 onwards).

RPD Motorsport · 25 Nov 2009, 12:31 (Ref:2588984)

Hi Guys,

Thought I'd clear up the FR2000 in 2010 questions...
Its 2010 format is as follows:

FR2000s only
2004 & 2007 Aero kits allowed (BARC and 'TOCA')
Restrictor is going up in size to 37mm
Gearboxes & diffs are now un-sealed and team maintainable
All the above in one open class

The point of the restrictor change is as the TOCA kit has 15% more downforce, if you remove the plate they lap 7 ths faster than a BARC kit as the power carries off the drag. Leave the current tiny plate in and the BARC kit is faster as the car does not have the power to carry off the TOCA kits drag. The idea being with this new size, either kit can win, and you should see different kits winning at different tracks. You must nominate your chosen kit at the start of the year, and cannot swap half way.
All fees have gon up this season drematicly. After some mystery shopping I know we are the cheapest drive out there. You will not get a drive in 2010 (including entries for races/tests etc, reg fee, new tyres at every event, all offical test days and 2 open days) for less than £55k with a team.
Hope this helps!

ianpearson · 25 Nov 2009, 13:22 (Ref:2589007)

fees gone up drammatically again!! gulp! so what is the registration fee for 2010? I hope the poor winter series turn out of 13 for a combined field of uk & barc cars is not going to be the norm for 2010

RPD, is your 55k + VAT? & including insurance?

JNWRF01 · 25 Nov 2009, 15:05 (Ref:2589046)

the question is how many test days??? I suspect official only - and if so - you will win nothing. PLease tell me if people have won BARC on official testing only..

I am no expert on BARC Ren - but I know the testing of some of these guys is extreme - and budget to match. Don't get me wrong - would love to do BARC - but I dont have time/budget to comepte

Bob Pearson · 28 Nov 2009, 08:51 (Ref:2590623)

I would suspect that RPD's offer of tests is referring to the pre event test, i.e the Friday of the weekend. Of course, its up to him to confirm that. You are right about the testing, when we were in it, there were some drivers who seemed to be testing every week, it didn't always work for them however.
Does anyone know what the registration fee is for 2010?

RPD Motorsport · 28 Nov 2009, 12:19 (Ref:2590728)

Hi Guys,

My budget included reg & entry fees, fuel, new brakes each time, new tyres each 'weekend', regardless of single headder or not, all the friday 'pre-event' test days, the one Renault pre season offical test day, then 2 pre season test days, winter testing if you like. This is +VAT and +insurance/driver pays damage. This said the driver this refers to has already done 2 days winter testing, and has booked a 3rd, so by the first round he would have done 6 days, most of these open pitlane exclusive days. We consider this little testing.

I know the past 4 seasons champions (Singleton, Lloyd, Hancock and Clark) and I know all done al least 15 days testing PRE season, then more in season. I doubt there will ever be a BARC champion with little or no testing, at least not without a previous seasons experiance AND a hugely experianced team like Fortec or Mannor. BARC is ment to be the first rung on 'profesional' single seaters, as such many drivers are ex karters and have first to learn the car before being able to give real feedback; there is only so far we can set a car up off data and camera footage alone.
Ian, there is talk of reg fees of £3500, and entries going up to around £380 for a single headder, and £600 for double headder meetings.

What are average fees/budgets for other formulas ATM then? Would £25K do you a season in F4?

ianpearson · 28 Nov 2009, 12:36 (Ref:2590739)

[QUOTE=RPD Motorsport;2590728]Hi Guys,
Ian, there is talk of reg fees of £3500, and entries going up to around £380 for a single headder, and £600 for double headder meetings.
QUOTE]

that is a bit strong isn't it, be interesting to see how many takers they have, certainly well out of my league these days

do you fancy any 2004 spec bodywork? pods, floors, nose, front flaps? all with holograms

Bob Pearson · 28 Nov 2009, 13:56 (Ref:2590773)

Crikey, with fees like that I think our days of BARC Renault are over. Pity really, it was good while it was possible for the likes of us to do it.....£20 registration last year in Classic FF2000!!

RPD Motorsport · 28 Nov 2009, 20:40 (Ref:2590932)

Your right it is a real shame. IMHO most of the increaces are due to FRTOCA taking the new car on. It was the wrong time, but Grovewood seemed adiment that we must be the 1st in the world to anounce it. Problem is this pushes the TOCA budegets up further, out of reach of those currently in the lower end of the FRUK budget band, i.e £110k-£130k.
ecause of this they are now going to come to BARC, with their money. So I dont think BARC will have a problem next season, In fact we are worried about getting our entries since Fortec are making 4 entrys, CRS making 4 along with others!
The thing is BARC just is not club racing anymore, whatever the BARC says. it might as well be a 2nd national series, both in budget and stature!
Ian i may be tempted to heve some bits... Namely Jet flaps, bargeboards and rear wing planes?? Wont know until we finish the re-builds and workshop stock take in Jan, but we gen go through these bits like no tomorro as we are using the 2004 kit next year.

Redracer77 · 1 Dec 2009, 13:41 (Ref:2592263)

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPD Motorsport

Hi Guys,

My budget included reg & entry fees, fuel, new brakes each time, new tyres each 'weekend', regardless of single headder or not, all the friday 'pre-event' test days, the one Renault pre season offical test day, then 2 pre season test days, winter testing if you like. This is +VAT and +insurance/driver pays damage. This said the driver this refers to has already done 2 days winter testing, and has booked a 3rd, so by the first round he would have done 6 days, most of these open pitlane exclusive days. We consider this little testing.

I know the past 4 seasons champions (Singleton, Lloyd, Hancock and Clark) and I know all done al least 15 days testing PRE season, then more in season. I doubt there will ever be a BARC champion with little or no testing, at least not without a previous seasons experiance AND a hugely experianced team like Fortec or Mannor. BARC is ment to be the first rung on 'profesional' single seaters, as such many drivers are ex karters and have first to learn the car before being able to give real feedback; there is only so far we can set a car up off data and camera footage alone.
Ian, there is talk of reg fees of £3500, and entries going up to around £380 for a single headder, and £600 for double headder meetings.

What are average fees/budgets for other formulas ATM then? Would £25K do you a season in F4?

Running your own car in F4 wilth all the same testing and tyres that you said for your BARC Renault budget would cost £10k (you need to own the car).

If you own a car and get a team to run you then £25k all in.

If you want to hire a race winning car with a good team with enough testing then it would cost £35k plus insurance. A lot cheaper than BARC Renault but a true Club CHampionship. BARC has now moved into a Pro Championship with Pro budgets.

JNWRF01 · 1 Dec 2009, 13:57 (Ref:2592268)

People underestimate the F4 series - but the cars are very similar to drive to F3 cars (ie move around a lot less than a FR) - and obv are the same cars to the F2000 series in the States - which is their FR equiv. In F4 cars you are not restricted on where you buy your spares/fuel/tyres etc etc - which saves a huge amount over BARC. OK - F4 is nowhere near as competitive as FR - but if you are looking to spend a cheap year learning wings/slicks and all the UK tracks - I have no idea why you would do FR.

As with all racing - testing is key to budget - and obv no point testing on crrrap rubber.. £25k owning the car is spot on in terms of running the car properly with new tyres for each race....

Bob Pearson · 1 Dec 2009, 13:57 (Ref:2592269)

BARC has now moved into a Pro Championship with Pro budgets.

Unfortunately, you are spot on corrrect.

What I would most like to see is what is currently BARC Renault move to TOCA as a support race, and a true club championship using those cars running under "as homologated" rules in BARC or BRSCC. I'm pretty sure politics between Renault UK, Grovewood and BARC would, unfortunately ensure it never happened

RF_Racer · 2 Dec 2009, 13:00 (Ref:2592837)

Monoposto seems a more attractive option! I am surprised that BARC have pushed the serious out of reach for the average club racer.

andy97 · 4 Dec 2009, 10:55 (Ref:2593913)

Must admit that if I was club level driver who had previously raced in BARC F Renault I'd probably consider Monoposto rather than have to spend at the level the BARC series seems to want. Mono is a bit of a compromise for these car due to the 40mm ride height but it must be better to be out racing than having the car sit in the garage. And several people race F3 cars at 40mm anyway & seem to get on OK.

Bob Pearson · 4 Dec 2009, 12:39 (Ref:2593949)

If we had been left with the cars when we pulled out at the beginning of 2009 we would have run them in Mono rather than do nothing with them. It wouldn't have seemed ideal with the tyre and ride height changes, but as you said Andy, better that than not use them.
The ideal in my mind is the option I mentioned a couple of posts ago with BARC or another club reintroducing a proper club formula for the cars to be run as designed without the crippling controls that exist on the current BARC FR formula.
Maybe it will drift that way, who knows? A pointer will be the number of registrations for the 2010 BARC FR, with 42 in 2008, and ( I believe) 22 in 2009, if the decline continues some need for action may be identified by those in a position to take such action.
I always saw BARC, Grovewood Sports and Renault being just a bit too close to each other to take action which could step on each others toes. For that reason, maybe the best chance of such a formula appearing lies with the BRSCC, but then the Club F3 boys would probably not appreciate competition in that arena.

Triple J Motorsport · 11 Dec 2009, 14:34 (Ref:2597915)

or F4 with free ratios etc

I think Ian could have won in F4 in a RC99 with mods allowed

andy97 · 11 Dec 2009, 14:41 (Ref:2597921)

Are the FR2000 F Renaults allowed in F4? They are in Mono. It's the FR2000's that are being discussed here, I think.

Bob Pearson · 11 Dec 2009, 15:08 (Ref:2597939)

I noticed in the Autosport yesterday that the BARC championshiphas been reduced by one round, apparently to help the teams. Unless the registration has been reduced as well, that wont be good news for any privateers who may still be running in it..............Less for the same amount of money!!

I must admit I fear for the health of what was once a magnificent formula, this is not a good time to be jacking up costs, the money needed just isn't there to be spent, regardless of whether you are relying on a sponsor or the depth of your own pocket.