[LM24] The new look at Arnage corner

[Adam43]

Victor_ro spotted mention of this new gravel trap in the ACO press release from the day the entry list was revealed....I'm moving relevant posts across (from the Entry List thread), since this topic has already been discussed in some depth.

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I'm trying to work out where the heck that would be. There's the escape road of course - to the right of that (as the drivers see it)? Where they tend to nose into the tyres? Have the ACO bought some land there I wonder?

550m^2? Perhaps it is a foot wide and stretches done to the Porsche curves?

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by m1fcf

My guess would be the property on the corner of that junction.......

That would be my guess too. Buying a chunk of their garden is the only way to create a gravel trap there because of the junction. Perhaps one of our Le Mans based regulars could take a look if they're nearby and let us know (Eric? ).

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

That would be my guess too. Buying a chunk of their garden is the only way to create a gravel trap there because of the junction. Perhaps one of our Le Mans based regulars could take a look if they're nearby and let us know (Eric? ).

Yeah some bushes and maybe even a couple of trees might need hacking down. Maybe whoever owns that property could charge people to watch the race from in there now.

[Le Vieux]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Yeah some bushes and maybe even a couple of trees might need hacking down. Maybe whoever owns that property could charge people to watch the race from in there now.

There's already an enterprising farmer/landowner/householder who puts a farm cart in the small orchard on the adjacent corner, puts seats on it, then watches the race from it. It's high enough to see over the boarding that the ACO put up to block road access.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Le Vieux

There's already an enterprising farmer/landowner/householder who puts a farm cart in the small orchard on the adjacent corner, puts seats on it, then watches the race from it. It's high enough to see over the boarding that the ACO put up to block road access.

I'll take a ticket!

[cmk]

Originally Posted by Le Vieux

They must have purchased some land and I feel a little sorry for the owner of the house on the outside of the corner. I'm still wondering what the thinking is behind this: I've been spectating at Arnage for 27 years and have never seen anything worse than a minor bump into the tyrewall here. Speeds are very low - a maximum of around 50-60mph even if no attempt is made to slow down.

Have to agree with you - this is making a problem where one did not exist before. Sure, cars could pick up a bit of front-end damage from a nudge into the tyre wall and have to lug it back through the Porsche Curves where it is difficult to stay out of the way. That's about the worst of it. Now, we'll have cars embedded in the gravel (a very 20th century technology) and littering stones about to puncture tyres in the Porsche Curves instead. Yay! It's just not a place where high-speed impacts can happen - if you have total brake failure/stuck throttle, you'd already have needed to make peace with whoever your own personal god is back at Indianapolis.

[Aysedasi]

Hmmm, I tend to agree. It would be interesting to know the rationale and what the drivers think about it.

[Steptoe]

We could see the 'new pit exit' scenario again they build it the driver's see it deem it dangerous and scrap using it.I just wonder if this is all to do with the FIA influence?

[Le Vieux]

Originally Posted by Steptoe

We could see the 'new pit exit' scenario again they build it the driver's see it deem it dangerous and scrap using it.I just wonder if this is all to do with the FIA influence?

I suspect that the drivers won't be overly keen to use a run-off area anyway, let alone scrap using it.....

[batmobile]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

That would be my guess too. Buying a chunk of their garden is the only way to create a gravel trap there because of the junction. Perhaps one of our Le Mans based regulars could take a look if they're nearby and let us know (Eric? ).

I'll try to get some informations then take pictures about the works.
Other works run in Le Mans, they have begun the second tram' line works this winter. So, actually we don't know exactly where the scrutineering session will take place either in the "Place de la Republique" just in the center, or along the river downside of the town. To follow...

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by batmobile

I'll try to get some informations then take pictures about the works.

Thanks Eric, that would be excellent!

Originally Posted by batmobile

Other works run in Le Mans, they have begun the second tram' line works this winter. So, actually we don't know exactly where the scrutineering session will take place either in the "Place de la Republique" just in the center, or along the river downside of the town. To follow...

I hope not, that's where I park for scrutineering!

[Tim the Grey]

I reckon somebody has a new 'Japanese' front garden... Paid for by ACO!

I don't understand why TBH, there's a road to escape down anyway?

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

I don't understand why TBH, there's a road to escape down anyway?

Not at Arnage Corner surely (nor Indianapolis, apart from the small service road on the right hand side of the gravel trap as you approach).

[Aysedasi]

Isn't there an escape road straight on at Arnage?

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Isn't there an escape road straight on at Arnage?

If there is, it must be a very small one. I thought there was just a small gap to let the service vehicles on to the track.

[GT6]

there is a road there it goes straight on to arnarge

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by GT6

there is a road there it goes straight on to arnarge

Isn't it blocked off for traffic circulation? Or, is there a piece of temporary road which cuts across the corner in order to leave a stretch of the main road open to be used as an escape road? I'm trying to visualise the set-up from trackside (and struggling!).

That said, and even if there is an escape road, I can't remember ever seeing a car use it, just cars going into the tyre wall at the end of 'that' garden.

[GT6]

if I remember right there is a short run off then a large metal sheet gate with tyres in front of it, I have seen cars taken off the track there but as that part of the circuit is the slowest a long run off area is not needed

[Le Vieux]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

Isn't it blocked off for traffic circulation? Or, is there a piece of temporary road which cuts across the corner in order to leave a stretch of the main road open to be used as an escape road? I'm trying to visualise the set-up from trackside (and struggling!).

That said, and even if there is an escape road, I can't remember ever seeing a car use it, just cars going into the tyre wall at the end of 'that' garden.

You're right...sort of!

When there's no racing, this is a normal crossroads. During race week, wooden boarding, about eight feet high is put up across the south-western corner of the crossroads and a temporary dirt road behind the boarding allows the public to use the one-way system, travelling from Arnage Village to Arnage Corner, then turning south away from the circuit.

I guess there's insufficient room to use the Arnage Corner to Arnage Village road as an escape route and it would entail either a temporary, but solid barrier, or a more permanent arrangement which would again, mean a local losing a piece of land.

Putting the new gravel trap slightly to the north of the junction makes sense, since all the mishaps I've ever seen at the corner have entailed low-speed impact with the tyre barrier that protects the armco that protects the garden of the house here.

Additionally, using the road would deprive the gendarmes of a first-class viewing point.....

[Steptoe]

Originally Posted by Le Vieux

You're right...sort of!
When there's no racing, this is a normal crossroads....

To help anyone that can't picture it here is the google maps aerial view when its a normal road , although you can still see the rubbered racing line on the road.

http://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=47....num=1&t=k&z=19

[Le Vieux]

Originally Posted by Steptoe

To help anyone that can't picture it here is the google maps aerial view when its a normal road , although you can still see the rubbered racing line on the road.

http://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=47....num=1&t=k&z=19

Thanks Steptoe. That illustrates the situation perfectly - and leaves me wishing I were there right now!

I can't help thinking that any run-off area should be roughly where the hatched area on the road is, but perhaps a little deeper, although that on the exit from Indianapolis isn't particularly deep.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Le Vieux

Thanks Steptoe. That illustrates the situation perfectly - and leaves me wishing I were there right now!

I can't help thinking that any run-off area should be roughly where the hatched area on the road is, but perhaps a little deeper, although that on the exit from Indianapolis isn't particularly deep.

Arnage corner should never have more run off area.
There is never any serious accidents, where peoples lives are in danger, so the safety aspect isn't there.

Also a lot of the charm of Arnage is that it's so all or nothing. Every year we see someone understeer into the barrier and then gets going again.

[Steptoe]

Originally Posted by Le Vieux

I can't help thinking that any run-off area should be roughly where the hatched area on the road is, but perhaps a little deeper, although that on the exit from Indianapolis isn't particularly deep.

I would love to know what they are trying to achieve ?
1. Is the trap to stop people going strait on (missed braking point or brake / sus failure) The temporary barrier seems to do this fine albeit with a slight front end nudge
2. Is it to save cars that have gone in too hot at the apex / understeered off or spun off backwards. Again at the speeds here a small bit of grasstracking and a nudge into the armco does the trick.
Where ever they put a trap I hope they don't use the same gravel they did when they put the esses in after dunlop bridge, that year the race was plagued with gravel punctures. Why not just put in a slight kerb where needed and some green asphalt/tarmac, most circuits seem to be going this way as tar offers more grip for abating speed than loose gravel. Also gravel tends to have a habit of inverting cars and spreading itself across tracks. Not good going into Porsche curves with a deflating tyre!!
I think you could be right on the location as that would not mean having to re route the existing road but I'm guessing it will extend up the side of the road past the exit kerbing on the outside.
If it ain't Broke don't fix it ............

[batmobile]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

That would be my guess too. Buying a chunk of their garden is the only way to create a gravel trap there because of the junction. Perhaps one of our Le Mans based regulars could take a look if they're nearby and let us know (Eric? ).

The works for the gravel trap have begun at the Arnage curve:
Here the pictures of today :
http://fr.numerispace.numericable.fr...view/1335441-4
http://fr.numerispace.numericable.fr...view/1335431-2
http://fr.numerispace.numericable.fr...view/1335436-3
http://fr.numerispace.numericable.fr...view/1335426-1

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by batmobile

The works for the gravel trap have begun at the Arnage curve:
Here the pictures of today :
http://fr.numerispace.numericable.fr...view/1335441-4
http://fr.numerispace.numericable.fr...view/1335431-2
http://fr.numerispace.numericable.fr...view/1335436-3
http://fr.numerispace.numericable.fr...view/1335426-1

Thanks for posting Eric!

It's not a pretty sight........